Power Supply Requirements

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Postby derylle » Sun Sep 12, 2004 2:52 pm

duely noted
Amd64 3500+ @2.2Ghz
Corsair XMS 1024 Xlpt(2*512)
Ati 9600Xt
Asus A8V Deluxe
Western Digital 160 GB
Maxtor 250 GB
Turbo Cool 425w PSU
Plextor 708A
Sony Dru 530A
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Postby Twisty » Mon Sep 13, 2004 5:02 am

Kltsin.

A lot of your last post does not make any sense.

Firstly you made the statement

If you are not a gamer there really is no need for a QUALITY power supply over 350 watts.


I disagree with this, for example I would consider it foolhardy to only run a 350W PSU in a dual Xeon Workstation.

Of course that will cost alot more to purchase, each second it is used it will need to power up to its electronics and make the electrical bigger.

If every one could afford to stick the best of the best into a system we wouldnt need a forum.

Obviosly not all of us can afford a Antec 480watt psu then pay the added 10 bucks a month to the electric company for its ohms.


This is mostly senseless drivel. You seem to be indicating that a PSU with a higher power rating is less efficient than an el cheapo, can you offer some proof for this? Figures I have seen indicate that quality units are more efficient than cheaper alternatives. It seems logical to me to assume that a PSU with a higher power rating will.

A) Run cooler, hence less resistively on conducting parts and less power loss over them.

b) Have larger/higher quality transformer coils hence less power loss through leakage of magnetic flux.

I appreciate the time you have taken in producing your site but to produce a comprehensive and accurate resource on PSU's you will at least need a basic grasp of electronic theory and written English. I dislike people confidently handing out advice on a subject that they clearly no nothing about, great harm can be caused when newbies take you advice as gospel.
- Webster - :tongue8:
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Postby derylle » Mon Sep 13, 2004 6:37 am

there is no doubt that all the newbies, who've asked questions about psu have already done research into it. they go to retail stores, parents ot whatever, but they join forums because they want to have the best, either by by peformance, value, ecoomic or standard quality. And it should be there own will if they do buy for an example a 480w antec or a 510w turbo cool deluxe. But let's continue to help them. :D
Amd64 3500+ @2.2Ghz
Corsair XMS 1024 Xlpt(2*512)
Ati 9600Xt
Asus A8V Deluxe
Western Digital 160 GB
Maxtor 250 GB
Turbo Cool 425w PSU
Plextor 708A
Sony Dru 530A
derylle
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Postby ForumLamer » Mon Sep 13, 2004 2:59 pm

I need to upgrade my power supply before it dies.... its probably running max output continously and I am not sure how long it will hold up... I don't get any lockups or anything... but I know I need one, I installed a BFG 6800 OC AGP... ( I had a radeon 9700 Pro) I also installed a P4 Prescott 3Ghz ( I had a 2Ghz CPU)... bringing my minium up to 339 W... I bet my 300 W has a max output of 350 W... but not sure what the max is for each voltage.. i.ei 3.3/5/12... here's to hoping it works until I get a 450W

Forgot to mention I know its maxed.. on my fans my RPM's went from 3500 down to 2500ish makes my CPU run a few degrees hotter than with the fan running slower but not to big deal, unless it fails...
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Postby derylle » Mon Sep 13, 2004 6:59 pm

hi and welcome to motherboards.org, it seems that u may need a decent power supply, there are many options that u may want to look into first:

braided cables
wattage
silent
with multiple leds
noisy
brand names
generic

ur psu can be the most silent thing on earth, but can it run your rig? how about if it has the nice lights, will there be enough wattage? and the cables all over the place? its up to you to pick and choose power supplies. it looks like u made need like a 425w-510 range, but just to be sure, what's ur specs on your rig?
Amd64 3500+ @2.2Ghz
Corsair XMS 1024 Xlpt(2*512)
Ati 9600Xt
Asus A8V Deluxe
Western Digital 160 GB
Maxtor 250 GB
Turbo Cool 425w PSU
Plextor 708A
Sony Dru 530A
derylle
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Posts: 331
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2004 8:51 am
Location: Illinois

Postby kltsin » Mon Sep 13, 2004 9:18 pm

webster wrote:I disagree with this, for example I would consider it foolhardy to only run a 350W PSU in a dual Xeon Workstation.


I was generalising of course there are other considerations for power users etc...
All of the other previous posts also said to check the rails and see what the demands of the system are so I didnt feel the need to restate it.


This is mostly senseless drivel. You seem to be indicating that a PSU with a higher power rating is less efficient than an el cheapo, can you offer some proof for this? Figures I have seen indicate that quality units are more efficient than cheaper alternatives. It seems logical to me to assume that a PSU with a higher power rating will.

A) Run cooler, hence less resistively on conducting parts and less power loss over them.

b) Have larger/higher quality transformer coils hence less power loss through leakage of magnetic flux.


What are you talking about webster? You seem to be able to come to conjecture quite easily.

I have stated over and over how important a power supply is.

I would have never of posted the previous post if I didnt have negative feedback from a post I made denouncing a link to a post saying X site was the #1 power supply site.
(it was a simple configurator with absolutely no insight on the real hardware used in a system or setups and suggested using the this thread for real info)

Simply stated: dont trust configurators!
my advice was dismissed on this... or apparently I didnt word it correctly.

I NEVER said to buy, "elcheapo", I said to buy the power supply for your system that can match each rail requirement and always make sure it is Quality!
I also stated that there is never anything wrong with having too much power but it will draw more power from the socket.
An Antec 250 vs a Antec 480? which will use more power in the same system?
The power supply has to "charge up" to meet power fluctuations, this will draw more power from the power company and you dont need to be a rocket scientist to figure this out.


I appreciate the time you have taken in producing your site but to produce a comprehensive and accurate resource on PSU's you will at least need a basic grasp of electronic theory and written English. I dislike people confidently handing out advice on a subject that they clearly no nothing about, great harm can be caused when newbies take you advice as gospel


Hmm

this is really perplexing me...

basic grasp of electronic theory?

I am the only one to include the following on power supply requirements in this sticky.....
I will 'letter' them just for webster :)

A: The draw on a system at boot (always goes way past any Normal draw)
B: Just because you have a system that needs X voltages at each rail doesnt mean they will all run at the same time, its just a way to figure things out. (they will never run all at the same time btw)
C: No one spoke of upgrading, adding a percent to each rail for future considerations/upgrades but me.
D: No one spoke of the need in the latest Nvidia 6800 card for 2 seperate molexs running solo but me.
E: a good powersupply can give good even power and cleanse what was given to it.
F: My web site alone which includes alot more data than this "sticky" can give seeing all of the bs thrown around by websters rants.
F:1 Vid card draws (I am struggling to get this info)
F:2 How to measure a psu physically for repalcement (spelled incorrectly)
F:3 Explanation of how a psu works a bit more indepth.
F:4 Table to use to find draw.
Its an anelfire site and obviously done just to help

So where do we stand....

webster wrote:I appreciate the time you have taken in producing your site but to produce a comprehensive and accurate resource on PSU's you will at least need a basic grasp of electronic theory and written English. I dislike people confidently handing out advice on a subject that they clearly no nothing about, great harm can be caused when newbies take you advice as gospel.


A guy that hasnt helped at all misconstruing words to his own satisfaction or a guy that has "tried" to make sense of it for the power user to the newb.

Hmmm...

The comment on my 'English' also is incredibly childish.

I came here to inform and not give rhetoric.
This sucks, I wanted to help and you have dismissed me.
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Postby kltsin » Tue Sep 14, 2004 3:53 am

ForumLamer

I am a unsure if the 6800 u r speaking of is the XT or Gt version.

The 6800XT has a huge draw, this has 2 psu molexs that need to be connected directly to the psu and nvidia suggests that those lines run straight from the psu.

Previously vid cards without the added 4 pin molex (other versions of the 6800 just have a single molex input) required the +3.3v alone to run the vid cards gpu, ram and fan and put a strain on that rail.

Any who there really isnt anything as a maxed out power supply.

If the system uses more power than the psu can emit the symptons are pretty specific on this issue, such as a spontaneous reboots or unexplained crashes or freezes. Slow fans aren't one of them to my knowledge

Cant really understand your personal issues of the fans and such.

There may be a bios issue instead. This makes more sense, check for updates for your system, chipset updates as well as bios.

Which ever version of that card you have you may be able to get by with your current psu but strongly suggest you update it to a good 400watt.

To find the output of the psu you do have there should be a lable on the outside describing its output.

Wish I could give you more info on what rails and draw the 6800 actually uses but I cant afford one to test it.

Your motherboard may have included a software monitor to watch the drain on each rail, I think motherboard moniter also includes this as well as saftey warnings for systems that are to hot.

Also note the 6800 gets incredibly hot and in turn heats the case.

I generally suggest clearing the lower pci slot and removing the cover so air is drawn over the card if you see heat issues.
You may have a highend line of the 6800 that exhausts heated air already or draws cooler room air.
ps:nvidia suggests 480w for the 6800xt. other sites/reviews have said it uses roughly 65 watts in idle and upto 110 watts at boot and in heavy use.
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Postby Twisty » Tue Sep 14, 2004 4:09 am

To be honest your PSU page comes up blank so I have to look at the source to read the content, your other pages view with no problems however.

I also stated that there is never anything wrong with having too much power but it will draw more power from the socket.
An Antec 250 vs a Antec 480? which will use more power in the same system?
The power supply has to "charge up" to meet power fluctuations, this will draw more power from the power company and you dont need to be a rocket scientist to figure this out.


What have you drawn this conclusion on? Can you prove this? What needs to "charge up"?

I'm not saying you are wrong, just that you have offered noting to back up that you are right.

The comment on my 'English' also is incredibly childish.

I came here to inform and not give rhetoric.
This sucks, I wanted to help and you have dismissed me.


Yes ok I apologise it was childish. But lets pick a specific example.

each second it is used it will need to power up to its electronics and make the electrical bigger.


I think that you just made this up because you thought it sounded clever. It does not make sense. If it honestly makes sense to you then could you please elaborate so others can understand.
- Webster - :tongue8:
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Postby kltsin » Tue Sep 14, 2004 5:18 am

Webster.

Obviously you do understand me and know I got my stuff together, (personally I have been using/building/testing/programming computers since I was 10 or 11 in 1980 or so...)

I may have lost some eloquence due to beer and fear facilitated exposure, (see my location and its easy to see why; 3rd hurricane in a month..) in that particular post.

That last line you quoted was obviously a screw up.

But, I do use a power calculater (built by my father) at the socket to test the draw on a system and record the draw.
My findings showed that the higher watt psu's continued to draw more power before and after the system had stopped running power using hardware.

You are correct with efficiency though and a good point.

A good efficiency rating will definetly reduce the kilowatts used by the system.
Quality hardware in the psu has improved as well as design.

Same goes for buying an air conditioner or fridge, they all have power efficiency ratings clearly marked.

But I stand firm that a higher rated watt output draws more power.
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Postby Twisty » Tue Sep 14, 2004 12:42 pm

Ahhhh.. that explains it, you should have just said you were inebriated. I'm jealous, I put in loads more typos when I'm pissed ;)

But, I do use a power calculater (built by my father) at the socket to test the draw on a system and record the draw.
My findings showed that the higher watt psu's continued to draw more power before and after the system had stopped running power using hardware.


Now you are talking. If you quote test conditions, figures and models of PSU then I would be very appreciative and would probably start believing you :) I have certainly seen PSU's that have a really lossy system for the +5V standby voltage, the worst I have seen is probably a no-brand 250W PSU I have that runs really hot when on standby.
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