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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 8:16 am 
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Black Belt 2nd Degree
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Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 7:33 pm
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Location: Milwaukee - Wisconsin
My basic opinion would be that if you're so offended by the presence of a memorial - do something greater in order replace (or be a beacon of counter-acclaim next to) it with one of yourself or in honor of your group/goal/accomplishments. Simply having it removed via complaint is lazy, simple-minded and involves absolutely no benefit to society to accomplish. Do something to improve society rather than eliminate history...which happened, and which cannot be undone by ignoring and removing traces of it.

Why don't we remove all buildings designed by racist architects, or dismantle roads built by companies run by racist leaders...? the list of "should be removed" will never end.

We might as well just erase all humans from the earth...we're all pieces of s**t at some point in our lives and offend or hurt others in some way or another. it's absolutely inescapable.

-R

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 3:08 pm 
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Black Belt 2nd Degree
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Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2004 3:31 pm
Posts: 2401
Location: North Carolina
I am a Great grandson of a Confederate Veteran. I am a member of the Sons of Confederate Veterans.
This group exists to commemorate and preserve the memory of those who fought and and those who died during the "Civil War".
I had many relatives that were enlisted in the Confederate States Army, all of them were privates, some survived the war, others did not. One was killed in battle, one died at Point Lookout, Maryland, of disease contracted in the prison. He was 20 years old. My Great Grandad lived until 1904.
NONE of then came from families that owned slaves.
.
The reason for the "Civil War" was the actions of the northern states and the federal government toward the southern states. Everything that was imported in to the south was taxed by the north and the government. Everything that was exported from the south was taxed also. Everything had to be shipped to the northern docks then shipped to the southern states.
.
History teaches us that Britain did this to the American Colonies, and that also led to war.
.
As for slavery, I will not expound on that, but I will say that the story has become twisted over time and by the tellers.
.
There is a great amount of information on the web about these things and about the notable figures of the time. Please research them and discover for your self.
TYVM.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 8:14 am 
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Black Belt 2nd Degree
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Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 7:33 pm
Posts: 2743
Location: Milwaukee - Wisconsin
sloopdog 1 wrote:
As for slavery, I will not expound on that, but I will say that the story has become twisted over time and by the tellers.

Slavery was still very much a driver for the cause of the war - whether or not it was economical, ideological, humanitarian or state vs. federal control is more a point of personal belief. History from the days leading up-to the conflict, whether diluted or not through time and "subversion" of the story, has (and always has since then) held it as a primary contributor. There's another half-dozen major contributors along with that - but to simply discard it as a "twisted" story is just careless.

Yes, tariffs. Having mono-economy in the south made the importation taxation much more impactful there - but that was a decision made consciously by the southern states. That economy was built (literally and figuratively) on the backs of slaves, because the south simply didn't have the population to maintain that economy without them. The south refused to modernize - or industrialize...partially because they didn't have to with the current state of the constitution and what had previously been a non-stop cotton boom. They had a very solid argument that the constitution allowed it - and it did. However - the expected expansion of slave states westward would only deprive the south of even more initiative to advance themselves. Federal intervention was absolutely unavoidable at this point - but secession could be considered a little...'extreme' of a response for most people.

-R

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Intel Core i7-960 Bloomfield 3.2GHz
EVGA X58 FTW3 132-GT-E768-TR
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Crucial M4 128gb SATAIII SSD x2
Crucial M4 256gb SATAIII SSD
OCZ Saber 1000 960GB Enterprise SSD
Corsair Professional Series HX850 PSU
Dell UltraSharp U2713HM 27" w/drop ceiling mount
Logitech G930 7.1 Headset
DBPOWER RGB LED Keyboard
Logitech G402 Hyperion Fury


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