Clean Install of Windows 10 from 8.1

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Clean Install of Windows 10 from 8.1

Postby c327 » Sun Oct 04, 2015 12:34 pm

Put the thread back where it was.....c327
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Re: Clean Install of Windows 10 from 8.1

Postby Mr T » Mon Oct 05, 2015 10:37 am

HP will partition the drive into 3 or 4 partitions. 1 at the front is usually invisible and is the recovery partition. The next partition is usually the driver/bloatware partition to reload drivers. They then add the operating system partition and sometimes a storage partition. If you hose the first two partitions, recovery is next to impossible unless you make recovery discs using the HP recovery tool, plus the operating system may not boot as the first sectors on the drive hold the boot info..

Now about booting windows 10... You cannot download windows 10, put it on a drive and make it boot, you must make the pen drive or external hard drive bootable, which usually involves hosing the drive and starting a fresh as it reformats the drive to put a bootable partition in. I downloaded win10 and created an .iso file which I burnt to a DVD and booted from that with an internal DVDRW or and external USB drive, easier for me as it is a tried and tested method - installing an operating system from a USb pendrive or hard drive is not always so straightforward..

On to installing windows 10. Unless you purchased a licenced retail or OEM version with product key, you cannot install the upgrade onto a bare drive with no operating system. The way windows 10 works to activate is to take a hardware profile of your system and use that as a unique id. The licence key is still required, but no activation if it doesn't detect that hardware profile. So if you have the upgrade version (free) and wish to install it, then you have to upgrade from windows 7 or window8/8.1, activate it and then do a clean install.

I ran Belarc Advisor on all my updated machines and the windows 10 product key is identical to each one for 64bit and 32bit.
I have been programming on computers since the ZX81.
I am an apprentice trained Electronics Engineer with qualifications to back it up.
I have been repairing computers since 1996.
Yet to some people I still know nothing...
Mr T
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Re: Clean Install of Windows 10 from 8.1

Postby c327 » Mon Oct 05, 2015 4:48 pm

Mr T wrote:HP will partition the drive into 3 or 4 partitions. 1 at the front is usually invisible and is the recovery partition. The next partition is usually the driver/bloatware partition to reload drivers. They then add the operating system partition and sometimes a storage partition. If you hose the first two partitions, recovery is next to impossible unless you make recovery discs using the HP recovery tool, plus the operating system may not boot as the first sectors on the drive hold the boot info..

Now about booting windows 10... You cannot download windows 10, put it on a drive and make it boot, you must make the pen drive or external hard drive bootable, which usually involves hosing the drive and starting a fresh as it reformats the drive to put a bootable partition in. I downloaded win10 and created an .iso file which I burnt to a DVD and booted from that with an internal DVDRW or and external USB drive, easier for me as it is a tried and tested method - installing an operating system from a USb pendrive or hard drive is not always so straightforward..

On to installing windows 10. Unless you purchased a licenced retail or OEM version with product key, you cannot install the upgrade onto a bare drive with no operating system. The way windows 10 works to activate is to take a hardware profile of your system and use that as a unique id. The licence key is still required, but no activation if it doesn't detect that hardware profile. So if you have the upgrade version (free) and wish to install it, then you have to upgrade from windows 7 or window8/8.1, activate it and then do a clean install.

I ran Belarc Advisor on all my updated machines and the windows 10 product key is identical to each one for 64bit and 32bit.


Mr. T

Thank you for the detailed and informative reply. I know you forgot more about PC's than I can ever only hope to know. Just a 74 year old retired Bus Mechanic that knows just enough about PC's to get myself in some real trouble with them, but unfortunately I have know one in my family or friends I can turn to for PC help. What ever I learned I learned right here.

I have the Windows 10 x64 .iso file on my desktop PC. If I use a flash memory thumb drive and delete everything on it and then reformat it will it be bootable afterwards? Or do I need to format it in a special way to make it bootable? If I put the USB drive in my desktop PC and reformat it like I did when it was new and then copy and paste the downloaded Windows 10 x64 .iso file on it will that be bootable?

I was under the impression that the preinstalled O.S. from HP had the product Key stored in the BIOS? If I put the O.S. on the flash drive and just follow the on screen instructions will it see Windows 8.1 that is already on the laptop?

Sorry if I ask a question more than once, sometimes it takes a while for this heavy stuff to sink in. Yes I have seen that small hidden area during other clean installs in the past.

My thinking is IF I were able to get the downloaded Windows 10 x64 installed via some media I gather I will have to go to HP for all the drivers like I have to do with my home built desktop every time I reload the OS. Doing it the way I had in mind will that wipe out all the partitions which I don't mind doing as long as I can get the drivers?

Regarding a new HP laptop. In checking the BIOS BOOT order to make sure it can boot from a USB flash thumb drive. I see the following orders of boot, which of these should boot first?

NOTE:

I have an external Seagate 7200 RPM HDD that was once in a laptop that I put into an enclosure that has a USB cable that I can connect to a PC. I use this HDD as a back up for my desktop. I remember having to format it so it would work with my desktop, works great. Would this be a better way to do rather than the USB thumb drive? I know I am rambling here and I am sober.

UEFI
OS Boot Manager
USB Diskette on Key/USB Hard Disk
USB CD/DVD ROM Drive

Legacy Boot Order
USB Diskette on Key/USB Hard Disk
USB CD/DVD ROM Drive

Thanks for you help and also from others here, its appreciated.
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Re: Clean Install of Windows 10 from 8.1

Postby Mr T » Tue Oct 06, 2015 11:08 am

Here is but one way to create a bootable pen drive... Google and it will show you other methods...

The pre installed HP windows is an OEM install, in simple terms, HP basically clones the drives with an OEM preinstall, the licence key on the base is not used, unless you do a clean install and wipe all the drives or put a new drive in..

Windows 10 will put just about all the drivers in. The only drivers I have issues with are ASUS ATK, solved by uninstalling the keyboard hot key program and the graphics drivers, which was resolved by downloading the driver from AMd, Nvidia or Intel..

I tend to use the legacy boot, but thats me, it works either way...
I have been programming on computers since the ZX81.
I am an apprentice trained Electronics Engineer with qualifications to back it up.
I have been repairing computers since 1996.
Yet to some people I still know nothing...
Mr T
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Posts: 17092
Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2002 1:03 am
Location: England

Re: Clean Install of Windows 10 from 8.1

Postby c327 » Wed Dec 02, 2015 9:04 am

Mr T wrote:Here is but one way to create a bootable pen drive... Google and it will show you other methods...

The pre installed HP windows is an OEM install, in simple terms, HP basically clones the drives with an OEM preinstall, the licence key on the base is not used, unless you do a clean install and wipe all the drives or put a new drive in..

Windows 10 will put just about all the drivers in. The only drivers I have issues with are ASUS ATK, solved by uninstalling the keyboard hot key program and the graphics drivers, which was resolved by downloading the driver from AMd, Nvidia or Intel..

I tend to use the legacy boot, but thats me, it works either way...


Mr. T,

Thank you for all your comments and suggestions, I appreciate it.

I am just an advanced home user who just retired my home built older Intel based i7 XP Pro 32 bit desktop PC and my older Sager XP Pro 32 bit laptop. I recently purchased the wife a HP x360 13t inch i5 Windows 10 Home 64 bit laptop with the best display option and a new Sager Windows 10 Pro 64 bit laptop. The HP came with 8.1 installed with a free upgrade to 10 Home which I did, all is good with that..... so far. The Sager laptop I got a thumb drive that I am told I can use to reinstall Windows 10 Pro, not really sure about that. I bought from Newegg a retail version of Windows 10 Pro x64 that I have not opened yet. I had planned on installing it on the wifes HP laptop.

Years back when I first bought a few box store PC's the first thing I did was clean install the OS to get rid of the crapware and that was my intentions with the HP laptop but so far both new laptops are working fine but I have yet to pick through the crapware. The new Windows 10 Pro x64 is on standby (expensive standby).

I was just wondering about if and when I have to reinstall windows 10 Home on the wifes HP laptop that I don't have the OS in hand to install. If and when that day comes and it will probably come sooner than later and knowing my wife after 53 years so I am warming up to what I think is going to be another very bad experience for me.

Thanks.............Mark
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Re: Clean Install of Windows 10 from 8.1

Postby Mr T » Wed Dec 02, 2015 10:52 am

Keep the wind 10 pro on standby.. You have a fully paid for up to date windows on the HP laptop.. If its working leave alone. If it breaks down it will reinstall easily - and this is the good thing, according to M$, the lastest build release of windows 10 (November 1511) after install, if you need to reinstall windows 10 you can use the old licence key. This is a good read, although now the release is back on again! You can use the media creation tool to download and make a disc (from an .ISO file (use Imageburn to burn to disc)) for a windows 10 installation.
I would use the win10 licence you bought on a new system build if you go down that route.
I have been programming on computers since the ZX81.
I am an apprentice trained Electronics Engineer with qualifications to back it up.
I have been repairing computers since 1996.
Yet to some people I still know nothing...
Mr T
Enlightened Master
Enlightened Master
 
Posts: 17092
Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2002 1:03 am
Location: England

Re: Clean Install of Windows 10 from 8.1

Postby c327 » Wed Dec 02, 2015 2:14 pm

Mr T wrote:Keep the wind 10 pro on standby.. You have a fully paid for up to date windows on the HP laptop.. If its working leave alone. If it breaks down it will reinstall easily - and this is the good thing, according to M$, the lastest build release of windows 10 (November 1511) after install, if you need to reinstall windows 10 you can use the old licence key. This is a good read, although now the release is back on again! You can use the media creation tool to download and make a disc (from an .ISO file (use Imageburn to burn to disc)) for a windows 10 installation.
I would use the win10 licence you bought on a new system build if you go down that route.


A while back I downloaded the ISO file for Windows 10 with the idea of using it to reinstall the OS should I need it but have deleted it since I was getting rid of the old desktop. I will look for the download again. if I remember correctly I needed to make the media bootable. I keep a small composition note book for each PC I have and record all important PC information I think may be necessary and also log everything I do to them. I ran Belarc Advisor and wrote down the OS Key. I noticed that the Key was the same number for 8.1 as was the free upgrade to Windows 10 Home x64

Sager gave me (I paid $25 extra for it) a thumb drive that is supposed to have the OS on it? I'm guessing it is the W-10 ISO file on a made bootable thumb drive.
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Re: Clean Install of Windows 10 from 8.1

Postby Mr T » Thu Dec 03, 2015 9:50 am

Sager gave me (I paid $25 extra for it) a thumb drive that is supposed to have the OS on it? I'm guessing it is the W-10 ISO file on a made bootable thumb drive
it is more likely windows 8.1 if the coa sticker is 8.1...

I keep a small composition note book for each PC I have and record all important PC information I think may be necessary and also log everything I do to them. I ran Belarc Advisor and wrote down the OS Key. I noticed that the Key was the same number for 8.1 as was the free upgrade to Windows 10 Home x64
I did the same until I realised all the licence keys were the same. After some research found the keys not as important as the hardware footprint to reactivate windows 10.. I am finding linux far simpler to use than windows, it is just a faff with all the keys and drivers, but windows has its uses ... Sigh...
I have been programming on computers since the ZX81.
I am an apprentice trained Electronics Engineer with qualifications to back it up.
I have been repairing computers since 1996.
Yet to some people I still know nothing...
Mr T
Enlightened Master
Enlightened Master
 
Posts: 17092
Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2002 1:03 am
Location: England


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