XP just won't die

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Postby Twisty » Fri Nov 29, 2013 6:43 am

Hardware Junkie wrote:This feels like Windows 95 all over again when they got rid of progman. I also hate Windows 8 and its garbage tablet interface.

I use command line all the time..


I appreciate this is an old thread but YES I still remember using win95 for the first time and thinking WTH, where is progman, I dont want to be dealing with this crappy webbrowser type file GUI. Only took a few minutes to get progman running again though, Microsoft actually included the files for progman with windows all the way up until one of the service packs for XP.
I have now left the Building :tongue8:
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Postby Karlsweldt » Fri Nov 29, 2013 10:14 am

A lot of the "old" features that were user-available are now automated. But the 'program manager' is still there, with a different name. And features.
As to the 'command-prompt' mode, yes you can still access 16-bit data. That will be part of the unspoken of "legacy" field for some time to come.
For the best management of files and folders, use Total Commander from www.ghisler.com/ which is not expensive. Split-window management of files and folders, cross-platform compatibility. And can be configured to show any and all files. Seamless within the OS operation.
And TC also has a command-line bar, for manual input needs!
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Postby BrevCampagnolo » Fri Dec 06, 2013 11:31 am

Last statistics I saw, something like 70% of the PCs in the world still were running WinXP.

I have Win7 & Win8 but they have too many differences that amount to an impairment rather than an improvement. I use them regularly to develop and maintain familiarity but I do most of my 'serious' work either on XP or Linux Mint.

It's not a matter of Ludditeism or resistance to change, XP simply does all the things 90% of PC owners buy their PCs for, and its GUIs are more intuitive (shorter ramp-up time), than either Win7 or Win8. Granted, some of that stems from the fact that functions like Windoze Explorer haven't changed materially from Win95 to WinXP, but the reason some stuff didn't change was because it was pretty darned functional from the git-go. The "logical" ordering in the later M$ products is anything but.

Win7 wouldn't be even marginally useful if I hadn't installed Classic Shell and 7+ taskbar tweaker. And no matter how long I work with Win8, it's still like trying to tie my shoes wearing mittens.

I'm a command line guy. Anybody who tries to encumber me getting to the command line is obviously evil. Win8 is every bit as bad as OSX at making it as difficult as possible for the user to get to the command line (until you install Start8). And the Metro interface is a horrible handicap to anyone whose monitor screen is bigger than 3"x4".

Something as simple as editing your 'hosts' file becomes a major undertaking in Win7 or Win8, all because M$ felt the need to reinvent the wheel. And give it three sides.

The entire reason M$ is so intent on obsoleting WinXP is they already had >90% market penetration. Their dominance was so complete that any further growth depended on the market itself expanding. So they're trying to create a new demand where it otherwise would not exist by forcing you to give up you XP box for something "better." Except it isn't, not in any meaningful way, not to the average PC user.

After they introduced Vista (pardon my french), M$ initially prohibited their big box manufacturers (Dell, HP, etc) selling new systems with XP on them. But in time they relented because those manufacturers were complaining that the mom&pop computer shops were making a killing "upgrading" Vista (pardon my french) to WinXP. But XP has long since been cracked, and is available slipstreamed with your choice of service packs (and accessorization) through your local bittorrent client (not that I condone that sort of thing, I'm merely stating a fact). And accessory manufacturers already have stated they will continue building legacy XP drivers for their new products. And even if they didn't, the cracker community these days is sophisticated enough to make them if the manufacturers won't.

So I think XP will remain in widespread use, even after April 2014. Which M$ will view as a missed opportunity, especially if the (underground) cottage industry that I foresee refurbishing XP, and tweaking it to work with new hardware, comes to pass. I well can imagine the market share running bootlegged XP will be larger than that running *NIX. And M$ will just have to get into that act.

Then they'll release Windoze XP Classic. New Coke, part deux.


As for the Leenuks, KDE4 was causing me more pain and suffering than even Win8 (but Win7 was a push). Then I chanced across Linux Mint's Cinnamon desktop. Now I are a happy Leenuks camper.
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Postby Karlsweldt » Sat Dec 07, 2013 7:52 am

"Modern" computers have a lot of new features that the older OS versions can work with, but specific drivers are required. Touch-screen interface use has been around longer than XP or Win 98!
As BrevCampagnolo noted, market saturation is a main reason for a "new" OS version. Otherwise, how can any company create profits without a newer version of their product?
The command-prompt feature is still in Win 8.. but buried in a user menu.
This link may be of interest.. Command-prompt access:
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Postby evasive » Sun Dec 08, 2013 5:22 am

about 300 million of those XP machines are located in China and I could make a bet they are running on less than 100 different VLK keycodes :lol:

Seriously, the western world is moving on, if at all a "classic" version of XP is released, it will be in chinese only I think. similar to windows 7 starter...
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Postby TriAngle » Mon Jan 20, 2014 4:56 pm

XP is still King! I recently sold my 10 year old Gateway DS-M350X WVN (M350WVN) laptop for $300.00 USD.
It was running XP Home Premium SP3 32-bit, upgraded 160GB 7200rpm hdd, upgraded 1GB RAM, upgraded IntelPro b/g wifi adapter, fresh XP SP3 install, and 2 AC adapters.
I miss it. It was a beast, never let me down.
Running XP SP3 on a desktop now, also Linux Ubuntu 12 on another desktop, and 7 64-bit on laptop with Classic Shell.
The buyer had to have it. I still regret that sale.
7 is ok.
I think any decent fully functional used laptop is worth at least $300, maybe more.
"Common sense is not so common." - Voltaire
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Postby c327 » Fri Jan 31, 2014 3:39 am

Ok I understand money makes the world go around, so maybe I will end up answering my own question here.

If a company has a good thing going, why instead of dropping it and coming up with the next big thing can't they just improve on the good thing they have going for them?

OK granted XP has a ton of hot fixes in its history but so what, at least they were dealt with. For me just as an advanced home PC user I don't like all the bells and whistles I see in cell phones and operating systems.

I use a PC to make my life a little more easier and a cell phone to talk on. If I want entertainment I will sit in front of the boob tube like a boob or go to the movies.
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Postby BrevCampagnolo » Fri Jan 31, 2014 5:23 pm

M$ has an entrenched culture problem. Some people thought it started at Steve Ballmer (the fish rots from the head). He retired last year, but it takes a ship the side of an aircraft carrier a long time to change course.

They lost scent of the trail with 64-bit XP. Truth be told, most PC users could have died happy still running XP. But the 4GB RAM limit proved to be too much a handicap (with good reason). Instead of expending resources helping peripheral manufacturers resolve 64-bit XP's driver problems, M$ cut it loose to concentrate on Vista (which shares a special shelf in annals of M$ history with the likes of WinME and MS-DOS 4-point-Oh-No).

M$ controlled so much of the market, they pretty much got comfortable with the fact they de facto were a legal monopoly. They lost sight of the fact that giving the customer what he wants is what pays the bills. So they stopped trying to build a product that got in front of customer demand and started building a product that would improve profits by creating new revenue sources and then attempted to lure the customer into the new direction. But they have to bribe or bully people to put it on their PCs.

XP was the last OS that M$ built that sold itself. Now they've gone from giving the customer what he wants to telling the customer what he wants. For the timebeing, they are able to make that business model work, at least financially, but at the expense of customer trust and good will.

I found "official" statistics from last September showing that (legitimate) XP was down to 37% and change of all PCs. Presuming as many as 25% of them abandon the OS between then and 8 April, that still leaves 305 million PCs on XP, not included the half a billion or so in China and India running bootlegged XP. And I found an M$ survey indicating 40% of all corporate IT managers had no intention of switching from XP.
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Postby Mr T » Sat Feb 01, 2014 8:01 am

Bear in mind, most ATM's run windows XP. They control money so are inherintly vunerable to a hack attack...
I have been programming on computers since the ZX81.
I am an apprentice trained Electronics Engineer with qualifications to back it up.
I have been repairing computers since 1996.
Yet to some people I still know nothing...
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Postby BrevCampagnolo » Fri Feb 14, 2014 8:36 am

And so it begins. The UK's National Health Service is asking M$ for a support extension. 85% of their desktops still are running XP. If M$ gives them any leeway, that will be the camel's nose under the tent.

Mr T, I found one source stating there were 400,000+ ATMs still running XP. If they've been running the same OS for 13 years now, what does that tell you about the OS? And about their "need" to "upgrade?"

All Windoze OSes have gross flaws, so everyone knows that "updating" to Win7 or 8 (or 9) will not bring harmony and tranquility. And better the devil you know than the devil you don't.
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