The Mother Board

[OneSpirit]

Well if you have seen my thread in the recommendation section you will know I've been having problems with my main system in my sig.

I was getting a bad reading from the p/s and it finally died on me. I got another one and was getting the same bad reading so I figured the mobo got damage when the chief max burned out on me. Ordered the same mobo ... when I was taking the cpu fan and sink out of the bad mobo the cpu was stuck to it and it came out. Some of the pins were bent and I straighten them back out. It felt secure when I put the lock on it on the new mobo.

Anyway I hooked everything up and power it up ... nothing but clicking sound. The cpu fan and the P/S fan was running but the gtx 280 card fan is not turning ... no video ... no system beep ... I checked my connections and I have the power hooked up to the card. It worked fine before I pulled the old mobo.

Uhmmmm .... I don't get it ... any suggestions?
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Gigabyte GA-M68MT-S2 mobo
AMD FX 8120 3.1 Ghz 4000MZ
8Gb DDR3 1333
Windows XPPro/Win7 Ultimate
Gigabyte GTX 280 GPU
WD100000 SATA 7200rpm
2 Sony(Optiarc) DVD AD-7280S
Inland ILG-600 P/S
Directx9

[OneSpirit]

Right ... I got it going ... the CPU wasn't seated properly ... redid it and now it boots up ... the problem ... I'm STILL getting that bad reading from HWMonitor ... I should be getting a +5v but I'm getting +3.60! Changed the mobo and the P/S is the CPU bad?

I run a program to check it.
_________________
Gigabyte GA-M68MT-S2 mobo
AMD FX 8120 3.1 Ghz 4000MZ
8Gb DDR3 1333
Windows XPPro/Win7 Ultimate
Gigabyte GTX 280 GPU
WD100000 SATA 7200rpm
2 Sony(Optiarc) DVD AD-7280S
Inland ILG-600 P/S
Directx9

[Karlsweldt]

Getting that low reading at the main power plug? Ensure you use a black lead at the plug to get proper readings. If indeed that low a reading, the PSU is being overloaded.. and can be damaged or DOA. Do a minimal-build test of voltages, with just the CPU and memory installed.. no device cards or drives connected. If still the same, pull the mobo to check for errant hardware somewhere under it... or stand-off mounts not mating to the mobo mount holes. Only the holes with solder rings top and bottom should be used for mounting!!
With a CPU that has pins to plug into a socket, you have to ensure ALL pins are exactly as straight as designed.. or you can loose contact in the socket. The only way is with a 'pin guide', or a special metal socket that trues up the pin alignment without doing damage. Otherwise, sight along six paths of the pins.. parallel and diagonal.. to note if any are out of alignment. Use a plastic credit card that is thin enough to slip between the pins, and bend all just a bit to get the few that may be out of alignment back in order. Mind the pressure you apply, as you will feel more resistance when contacting the truly straight pins. You don't want to bend them out of alignment. Yes, takes time and patience.
Intel went with the LGA (land-grid arrangement) design to avoid the problem of pins being bent or broken.
_________________
F@H.. to solve mankind's maladies.. in our lifetimes!

[OneSpirit]

According to HW Monitor yeah ... where I should be getting +5 I'm getting +3.60. Please explain what you mean by ensuring I use a black lead at the plug to get proper readings? When you say do a minimal build test of voltage, with just the CPU and memory installed ... do you mean with a multimeter? ... Something like that? How will I know where to put the leads if that's the case?

I'm doing a test on the CPU now with Hot CPU Tester ... I tried it last night, windows did an upgrade and must have rebooted itself during the test so I had to start all over again. Hopefully I will get the results this evening. It takes six hours to run the test. I suspect the CPU is good.

The the mobo and P/S I replace are giving the exact same reading. With that in mind would be an indication the hardware is good?
_________________
Gigabyte GA-M68MT-S2 mobo
AMD FX 8120 3.1 Ghz 4000MZ
8Gb DDR3 1333
Windows XPPro/Win7 Ultimate
Gigabyte GTX 280 GPU
WD100000 SATA 7200rpm
2 Sony(Optiarc) DVD AD-7280S
Inland ILG-600 P/S
Directx9

[OneSpirit]

I forgot to mention I'm still unable to shut down the computer ... I thought once I replaced the P/S and the mobo this problem would stop, but it did not. Instead of shutting down when I tell it to ... it will simply reboot unless I hold down the power switch or kill the power.

That is a real mystery Any ideas what is happening with that?


The results from the Hot CPU Tester were negative ... no errors found. It tested all eight cores. Nothing.
_________________
Gigabyte GA-M68MT-S2 mobo
AMD FX 8120 3.1 Ghz 4000MZ
8Gb DDR3 1333
Windows XPPro/Win7 Ultimate
Gigabyte GTX 280 GPU
WD100000 SATA 7200rpm
2 Sony(Optiarc) DVD AD-7280S
Inland ILG-600 P/S
Directx9

[evasive]

When was the last time your mains power lines were checked for proper voltage etc?
_________________
We hate rut, but we fear change.



System error, strike any user to continue...

[OneSpirit]

Not since I've lived here and that's 16 years ... but check it ... I qualify for home improvement help and I will be getting my whole house re wired! New electrical box lights the works! That will be done in a couple of months.

But check it ... my emachine is getting the correct readings according to HW Monitor ... so I guess the power lines may not be the cause.

And the computer not shutting down ... now that is really blowing my mind ... I simply don't get that with a new P/S and mobo!
_________________
Gigabyte GA-M68MT-S2 mobo
AMD FX 8120 3.1 Ghz 4000MZ
8Gb DDR3 1333
Windows XPPro/Win7 Ultimate
Gigabyte GTX 280 GPU
WD100000 SATA 7200rpm
2 Sony(Optiarc) DVD AD-7280S
Inland ILG-600 P/S
Directx9

[Karlsweldt]

A digital meter (multimeter) is the only tool to use on electronic circuits. It will not load down sensitive circuits as would an analog meter.
But measuring voltage on a circuit means you must use the common lead for that voltage source.. not another. With computer power supplies, all the black leads converge at one point in the power supply.. and to ground. But it is best (required) that you use a black wire terminal for all readings. The red wires are the +5 volt source, the orange the +3.3 volt source. Yellow is the +12 volt source. There would be a violet wire, that is a constant +5 volts for the power to USB ports and other circuits, even when the PSU is not active. A gray wire would have +5 volts only after the PSU load has stabilized to the mobo power demands. A blue wire would be the -12 volt source, not much current.. for special needs. The green wire is to control the on/off function of the PSU. About +5 volts present when not active, near zero when active.
Check this link for power connections on computers.. http://pinouts.ru/Power/atx_v2_pinout.shtml

Again, if you are reading the +5 volt main source and get a very low reading, that indicates a possible short somewhere, or a bad component.
Doing a 'minimal' build removes any extra features so you can work with the minimal possible causes. A motherboard cannot function without the CPU and memory. With just the CPU, you would get error beeps and minimal signs of life. But with memory included, you get about 75% of normal activity.. but with error beeps.
With some motherboard designs, the CPU may be a good fit... but may not be compatible to the design. As an example, the older Socket 478 designs could accept any P4 processor because the pins and socket are identical. But internal circuitry may limit the range of processors allowable. Using a Prescott-class processor where only a Celeron-class processor is intended would overload power regulators.. and traces! Same with many AMD designed motherboards.
Ensure that only the recommended processor is used in a specific mobo model.
_________________
F@H.. to solve mankind's maladies.. in our lifetimes!

[OneSpirit]

Well ... first of all I'm going to have to find a digital multimeter ... I only have an analog one. Second ... where do I get my readings from? Where is this one point in the P/S that converges? Do I have to open the P/S in order to get to it?

If so that would void my warranty. I do have another new P/S from the warranty of the one that failed. What if I hooked that one up and see if I get the same reading in the meantime? It might take a few days to get a multimeter.

Do you know what components the +5V feeds? I feel the P/S mobo and CPU are good ... what about the dvd drives? GPU? HHD?

Thanks much for the link.
_________________
Gigabyte GA-M68MT-S2 mobo
AMD FX 8120 3.1 Ghz 4000MZ
8Gb DDR3 1333
Windows XPPro/Win7 Ultimate
Gigabyte GTX 280 GPU
WD100000 SATA 7200rpm
2 Sony(Optiarc) DVD AD-7280S
Inland ILG-600 P/S
Directx9

[Karlsweldt]

There are dangerous voltages inside a PSU! If not confident or experienced in working on one, don't do it!!!
The "workings" of a PSU are rather simple. One part has the primary input voltage, either 115 volts or 230 volts AC.. which is rectified into DC voltage at around 250 volts. Then a transistor circuit "chops" it into around 400 Hz pulses.. that drives a small power transformer. That transformer has secondary windings that provide the +3.3, +5 and +12 volts needed for the motherboard circuits. The output voltage sources are then rectified to DC, and filtered to provide an almost-pure source of high-current DC. The secondary winding for the 12 volts has two outputs.. the +12 volts for heavy-current use, and a low-current (.5 amps or less) as -12 volts. A separate smaller transformer provides the +5 volts stand-by needs for the USB circuits, BIOS needs and other control features.. maybe 5 amps maximum. For all of this voltage/current source, only one common return path is provided. That is with the black-color leads. They all are soldered to common points on the PSU circuit board. Which in turn is grounded to the PSU case, and then to the PC chassis. The Underwriter's Lab specifies this process to prevent deadly electrical shocks to users. The input AC source is also grounded inside the PSU case (separately), and then the PC case itself. Defeating the grounding process of the AC power cord to the PC can result in a nasty shock, or possibly electrocution!!!
Hence the reason to ensure that only a black wire terminal of a PC internal power plug is the "common" reference point. No, you don't have to enter the PSU case. While the metal case and black leads are at the same potential or reference level, the black leads will more accurately give a true reading.
Analog meters may impose up to 1/2 ampere of resistance to a circuit. Digital meters rarely impose more than 2 megs of resistance! You don't need an expensive do-all digital meter. Leave that to a pro. But those under-$30.00 meters found in electronics stores or other markets will be more than sufficient, and have accuracy within +/- one last significant digit. Good enough for most uses. With an analog meter, you can measure voltage only one way.. but with a digital meter, no problem measuring positive or negative polarities with the same lead arrangement. Just pick the proper range for measurements.. and either AC or DC field. The highest voltage used in a computer circuit is 12 volts. No reason to fear shocks. Very old computers may have had 24 volt provisions.. but no longer needed.
_________________
F@H.. to solve mankind's maladies.. in our lifetimes!