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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 1:25 pm 
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Mobo-fu Master
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Location: Netherlands
Mr T wrote:
Difference is, Edwin, is The Netherlands has a pretty good public transport infrastructure.. Go to the US and you will see the problem - live in a city and transport is pretty good (buses, trains).. Hit the states like Arizona and you will see how people MUST have their own transport, for fuel, food and esp. water.. America is still very rural and big (widespread) to say the least... Increase fuel prices hurt us all...


Do you mean there is NO public transport in there at all? I need to revise my view on the US then...

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 1:28 pm 
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Mobo-fu Master
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Crude oil prices have risen steadily over the past few weeks.. and some favored types may be much higher in price. Crude Price Watcher: Where does your dollar go as per splitting up the "pie" of petroleum products? About 45% or more goes to the well head. Taxes may take up to 30% or more. Refining and delivery costs may take up around 15% or more. The retailer gets 3~4% of the "pie" for his profit.

If the trend of higher prices continue for crude oil, this economic depression we are in will only deepen!

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 2:20 pm 
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Black Belt 2nd Degree
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Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 7:33 pm
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Location: Milwaukee - Wisconsin
evasive wrote:
Do you mean there is NO public transport in there at all? I need to revise my view on the US then...

in very large swaths of the US, yes...there is no public transport.

you're effectively going to need to go to the top 30-40 or so metro areas to have "legitimate" public transport. only the largest of cities/metro areas will have a highly integrated public transit system like surface trains, buses, undergrounds, etc. most will have a few bus lines, or some light rail lines, but not much that would compare to many european cities.

in many of these places the logistics to build out a public transit system is near impossible - many for economic reasons, as well as ecologic/geographic limitations...and quite frankly, politically.

using arizona as an example in comparison to the netherlands isn't probably very good, but it's what's out there now.
Arizona:
113,998 sq mi(295,254 km2)
6,392,017 - Density 56.3/sq mi (21.54/km2)
Netherlands:
16,158 sq mi (41,848 km2)
16,659,600 - Density 1,039.1/sq mi (401.2/km2)

an area 7 times larger but having ~40% the population...public transit outside of the 2 or 3 "major" cities (which ironically is what their light rail services) there's no way they could accrue enough ridership to run it.

phoenix(1.5m), tempe(160k), and mesa(440k) are served by the rail - with additional bus services alongside - "available" to approximately 2 million of the state's 6+million residence. of that, i think ridership % is well below 10% for those it's available to...probably closer to 2-5%, which is the typical norm in US cities besides new york, L.A. and like chicago.

the same model can be seen in most every state across the country.

it's insanely expensive to run these programs for the space they are being asked to cover, and the population they actually would get to use it. until you actually experience the spaces which exists in the US, it's hard to describe...it's VERY different than europe. we had an exchange student that wanted to see 4 or 5 major landmarks across the US during a long-weekend trip. he never realized that it would take 3 days of driving to just GET to the places he wanted to go - let alone sleep, or see anything. using a train would take almost 3 times longer. airfare would be in the thousands. it's a large country - and the metro areas are large as well. these are the simple limitations which exist, and we have to work with...then there's all the other politcal BS and money and support...etc...etc...etc...

-Roach

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 5:25 am 
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Black Belt 3rd Degree
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Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2003 2:12 am
Posts: 3672
Location: Washington D.C.
Karlsweldt wrote:
Crude oil prices have risen steadily over the past few weeks.. and some favored types may be much higher in price. Crude Price Watcher: Where does your dollar go as per splitting up the "pie" of petroleum products? About 45% or more goes to the well head. Taxes may take up to 30% or more. Refining and delivery costs may take up around 15% or more. The retailer gets 3~4% of the "pie" for his profit.

If the trend of higher prices continue for crude oil, this economic depression we are in will only deepen!


that is on oil futures... it doesn't explain why the rapid rise in gas prices is occuring now.... except the fat, texas assholes are gouging us because they can! prices are at 3.73 today here in DC/MD/VA. oil futures were topped out at around $140 a barrell last time gas prices were this high.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 8:10 am 
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Even in the UK, rural areas, the public transport is poor and unreliable... I always thought the US whined to much about fuel prices and used big gas guzzling cars, until I visited and was enlightened by the sheer scale of things... Been to the Netherlands, France, Belgium and Germany, their public transport is excellent, even in the rural areas (my experience is pretty limited apart from Germany).. Spain isn't too bad either...

We as a human race though should be doing a lot more to get off the fossil fuel band wagon... It is difficult to change - very difficult, and I think the transitional stage is happening now, but it is going to be long (Rome wasn't built in a day).. I also think as a world we rely on too many unstable countries, unstable political figures and greedy corporations, which is slowing this transition... (I will stop as i could rant on and on)...

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 8:24 am 
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Mobo-fu Master
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Fuel prices are only a few cents away from where it was a year or two ago. And that caused people to begin stealing it.
I haven't heard it in the news yet but I expect to soon...

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 8:48 am 
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Joined: Fri Feb 28, 2003 2:59 pm
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Location: Minneapolis, MN
I live in a suburb of Minneapolis MN (USA), and work as a Contract Mainframe Programmer. Nobody will hire someone my age, but they will engage me for contracts, some lasting years. Current contract involves 70 Mi. RT commute daily.

I did get a Motorcycle, but only will use it if the weather is going to be reliably fair (and on the Interstates, driving a Motorcycle is not nearly as much fun as on a quiet country road).

My Subaru gets about 28 MPG (try Synthetic 0W-30 oil !). So I am currently needing $50/week to get to/from work.

If I used the Motorcycle, I'd still need $35/week for gas.

The frustration is that the USA HAS oil, but our own regulations prevent us from getting it. In the Gulf of Mexico: Venesuela and China are drilling (are they being more careful than Domestic Oil companies would be ?) but not the USA. Alaska has oil we can't get, Russia is drilling offshore near Alaska as well. Importing leaves us with very little for options, and OPEC Knows it...

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