Who Pays For Those Who Can't Pay Their Hospital Bill ????

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Who Pays For Those Who Can't Pay Their Hospital Bill ????

Postby Spark » Sat Jun 05, 2010 4:27 am

Well some folks think that hospitals have a slush fund to pay for those who can't pay their hospital tab when they leave. Well I disagree with that. If anything hospitals run a deficit in this department and are constantly looking for additional aid from State & the Federal Government.

When all is said and done, it IS THE TAX PAYER through their Federal and State taxes that they pay, that pays for this free medical treatment the hospitals dole out to those who can't afford to pay. Some are on Medicaid (Tax Payers pay for this) and some are not and it makes no difference, charity care is still charity care. Some are illegals, especially in Florida that (check it out) who just walk in because they are sick. In NYC these folks will call an ambulance just because they need transportation to the hospital, just for being sick, a fact, check it out and who do you think pays for that. And because of this hospitals jack up the cost of various services they provide for those who do pay their tab. Sometimes the cost of certain services can run 4 times the normal cost I am told.

I remember upon requesting to see an itemized bill for services rendered during my hospital services received for our patient care for one Tylenol tablet and that cost me $50.00. Now that is pure B.S.

http://www.philly.com/inquirer/local/nj ... z0pygv8x7V
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Postby Copper » Sat Jun 05, 2010 10:08 am

All Doctors around the world take the same oath, that they will treat someone regardles of there race creed colour or religion or they ablity to pay.

or would you rather have dead boddies littering the streets. or do you lack complete compassion. i as i say do unto others, what you want others to do unto you
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Postby fussnfeathers » Sat Jun 05, 2010 2:08 pm

Agreed with Copper. How would you feel if you got laid off, haven't been able to find a new job for a year or more, and get ill, only to find out you can't even get that Tylenol? From what I can see in that article, sure, the hospitals get money to help with operational costs, but they only got, what, 30% of what they gave?

If you want, I can give you the address and phone numbers of the hospital trustees, they'll be more than happy to provide you with a listing of all donations, and what those donations are used for. In fact, they have to.

http://www.rutlandhealthfoundation.org/staffboard.html

There's the list of people that run the charitable group for my area. Call or email, and ask how much they provide every year, and what it goes for. Looks like a whole lot of golf tournaments, motorcycle rides, nothing you're being forced to pay for.
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Postby Spark » Sun Jun 06, 2010 1:10 am

Copper wrote:All Doctors around the world take the same oath, that they will treat someone regardles of there race creed colour or religion or they ablity to pay.

or would you rather have dead boddies littering the streets. or do you lack complete compassion. i as i say do unto others, what you want others to do unto you


This thread isn't about doctors. You all don't understand what was written.

Yeah the golden rule, right. Wake up to reality, money talks and BS walks in real life. You either have it or you don't. The fact is that hospitals do go broke and do close and or go out of business because they don't have the money to operate and they could give 2 holy sh-ts less about how many bodies pile up in the streets.

Like I said taxpayer money goes to help pay for the free services the hospitals dole out to both the truly needy citizens and the conniving sleaze balls alike and that includes the illegal aliens or better known as border jumpers.

Sorry to burst your bubble but you don't have the facts and you didn't read my post correctly, doctors are not and were not the subject issue here, it's the HOSPITALS & TAXPAYER MONEY THAT HELP FUND THEM.
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Postby fussnfeathers » Sun Jun 06, 2010 1:54 pm

I wasn't talking about doctors, either. Even if the hospital doesn't work out a plan with you, the doc will often see you for free IN THE HOSPITAL. The link I provided is for the Rutland Regional Health fund, if you didn't click on it. Every year, besides the usual annual donations from the communities around here, several golf tournaments, bike tours and races, motorcycle tours, leaf peeping tours in the fall, the majority of the money collected by people who want to support the hospital goes to cover just what you say it doesn't. I can't speak for Chicago, but I do know it happens. Fletcher Allen up north is like that as well, and DHMC where I'm being seen is a medical school hospital. Aside from the school tuitions, donations, and the like, DHMC also has close ties to WHO. The director of both the hospital and school is Jim Yong Kim, who actually turned DOWN the leadership position of WHO to run DHMC. Sure, some of that is funded by taxpayers, but where would you rather have your money go.......healthcare for the poor who may not be able to afford it, or a new highway where one isn't needed?

Don't forget, the folks that can't afford medical care aren't all welfare junkies. I can't afford it, and I've been an active, working taxpayer for 23 years. Acutally, I'm only halfway through paying off the bill for my first back surgery in 2005. My neighbor had to ask for assistance, his wife got laid off, and his kid had to have his appendix out. No money for that, he can barely make the house payment until his wife finds work again. Roughly 30% of my community can't afford healthcare.

Wake up. I agree that there's a group of folks that misuse and abuse the system, but the fact is an ambulance driver in NYC can't make the judgement call as to whether a caller is really sick enough. Make one bad call, you just killed somebody. I went through that personally, the base hospital refused to send an ambulance when my wife went into labor, they didn't consider it an emergency. I wound up delivering my first kid myself in the bathroom, and calling an off-base ambulance later. Congrats. Taxpayers just paid a US military medical service to turn DOWN care for an active military member, then paid the off-base ambulance with taxpayer's money again...........my government paycheck. PDT_Armataz_01_02

Yes, bills and services are high. Blame the distributors for that, they're the ones jacking the prices.

Oh.......I should also point out something you apparently don't know. My psych used to accept medicaid. She doesn't anymore. She sees me for free (more because my mother is her office manager, and because I've known her for ten years) simply because it's easier than taking Medcaid. See a patient, send the bill to the government, fill out all the paperwork to get the claim approved, half the time be denied for some line that wasn't filled in properly, then get a whopping $7 for seeing that patient. And get NOTHING for seeing a crisis patient in the ward. Can't bill Medicaid for that, they won't pay. She also had to take NY Medicaid, ant they'd only pay $3 per visit for the $75 billed. Nice, huh? Right now, my PC is fighting to keep his doors open, between he and his three NP's they see four to six patients every hour, ten hours a day, and he can't afford to pay his staff. Why? The government mandated electronic medical records system he was forced to buy into. $100,000 for that, and there's no aid for him. THAT'S where your taxes are going, bud. I hate to burst your bubble. Ask the government where your tax money is going, when your doc is getting 10% of what they bill. Where's that other 90%? Feel free to complain about the tax money going for Medicaid, that's fine. I think it's too high myself. But find out where that money is going. Not to the docs and hosipitals, that's partly why they're running on a shoestring. The government doesn't pay that money. It costs more to accept Medicaid and bill the government than it does to just see the patient for free. Half the time the services are going to be rejected by the government anyway.
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Postby thomas_w_bowman » Mon Jun 07, 2010 5:01 am

Between government mandated electronic medical records system and other government mandates - and Insurance Companies demanding increasing discounts - the actual cost of medical care is growing unrelated to actual billing.

Check Hospital price for a procedure:
- Medicaid price
- Medicare price
- Insurance Price(s)
- Uninsured price (this is often a 'sliding-scale based on income')

Cost of care for uninsured who don't pay billing is hard to figure, but it is partly borne by Taxes, those who actually pay the higher-income uninsured pricing, Hospitals, and Insurance premiums.

This becomes devastating as we attract folk from other countries, especially if they only come to use our 'welfare'... In, say, Mexico - if you had the same problem you would likely get simpler care, but it would cost much less (especially prescriptions) - and if you could not pay (generally in advance), you WOULD be allowed to die or whatever...

But if one has 'too much' insurance, it is possible that unneeded procedures would be urgently suggested - after all they are 'covered' ("Free?"). plenty of opportunity for abuse there too.

Eventually an institution can be overwhelmed by welfare cases (especially illegal immigrants in areas where they can become a very high percent of welfaree cases), and faces implementing stiffer admission policies or simply closing due to losses...
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Postby fussnfeathers » Mon Jun 07, 2010 4:59 pm

We don't have a whole lot of illegals in the Northeast. Actually, if you believe the "true definition of a Vermonter" I'll never be one myself. There's actually a group that's gaining steam here lately that wants to bar non-Vermonters from buying land. That's off topic.

Having been on Medicaid myself for some time now (different level than what you're talking about, I pay a monthly premium, copays on prescriptions, stuff like that. State-provided insurance for uninsured workers) I can tell you flat out that Medicaid patients don't get the same level of care as a privately insured patient. Not even close. One notable moment was me pissing the bed because the nurses wouldn't help me up after my back surgery, but the guy next door got stellar treatment.......private insurance, the hospital was making money off him. Other times I've gone in, sick, dizzy, feverish, ringing in the ears, and have been given a couple of Tylenol and a pat on the back. Trust me, quite a few of us are on government healthcare, but we get third-class treatment as a reward for being poor. The only reason I even got treatment for my back in the first place was the neurosurgeon who was seeing me pushed hard to get me in, otherwise I might have gone a month or two with bits of my spine floating around.

Yeah, there is a lot of insurance fraud, but really, that's been cracked down on quite hard lately. It's not like the good ol' days when your family doc would see you at his office, or in your home, treat you, give you everything you needed, no questions asked. Now they're nickled and dimed to death. And I understand why docs will do this...........it's very difficult to get payment out of insurance companies, and they have the final say. I'm paying for my last back surgery myself, because BC/BS decided it wasn't necessary treatment and refused to pay. So yeah, you wind up with docs that bill for fake treatment, add things in, doctor records, anything they can. That's pretty much the only way you'll be sure you'll get payment.

When my mom had her foot surgery last year, she obviously couldn't walk, both her rotator cuffs are torn, and she has a fused disk in her neck (plate holding them together came out of a cadaver, just so you know. Resuable medical parts), so she couldn't use crutches or a walker. Her surgeon prescribed a wheelchair rental. We had to argue for three weeks to get BC/BS to agree to pay for it, they refused to believe she couldn't use a walker. She wound up having to for two weeks, screwed her up pretty badly, she'd going to have more surgery, and be in a sling, arm immobilized for six weeks because of that idiocy. But that's just one example. Even with legitimate proof (MRI's of her shoulders and neck, doctors notes, the works) insurance tried everything to get out of paying. Wonder why docs and patients cheat the system? It ain't gonna get any easier, either. Once insurance companies have to pay how much out of each claim, it's gonna be nearly impossible to get treatment. You know who you can point that finger at, and it ain't us medicaid folks.
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Postby Spark » Wed Jun 09, 2010 12:44 am

Don't have a lot of illegals in the North East, that is funny. Take a trip to a place called New York City. Check the corners of certain streets between 7:00 AM & 9:00 AM. They are wall to wall on Staten Island also. In New Jersey it is almost as bad.

Check these links and they all support what I have said...
http://www.wbng.com/news/local/84260917.html

http://www.wgrz.com/news/local/story.as ... 9&catid=37

http://www.news10.net/news/national/sto ... 21&catid=5

http://blog.syracuse.com/opinion/2010/0 ... _abus.html

In NYC ambulance service for the most part is run by the City of New York and paid for by and large by the tax payers.

Additional links to why, where and who pays the tab of those who don't.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index ... 650AALGDAM

http://www.aha.org/aha/content/2008/pdf ... d-care.pdf

http://www.healthreformwatch.com/2010/0 ... r-fy-2011/

http://content.healthaffairs.org/cgi/co ... 3.66v1/DC1

See Below:

Payments by state and local governments. Hospitals receive payments from state and local governments in the form of tax appropriations. The Medicare Payment Advisory Commission (MedPAC) treats these funds as reimbursement for care provided to uninsured patients. In 1999 hospitals received $2.7 billion in tax appropriations from state and local governments.31 This amount probably exceeds actual state and local support for uncompensated care, because there is no information on the purpose for which these revenues were intended. However, we know that they tend to go to hospitals that are major providers of uncompensated care in their communities, so even if they are not earmarked as support for uncompensated care, they probably serve that purpose to a large extent. Applying the CMS’s projected 13.3 percent increase in hospital spending between 1999 and 2001 yields an estimate of $3.1 billion from state and local governments’ tax appropriations as support for hospitals’ uncompensated care costs in 2001.

This thread was never about doctors or truly needy people who need charity care. It was about who in part pays for it and those who abuse it.

You can twist around what was said any way you wish but the facts speak for themselves. If you want to argue the point you will have to do it with some one else. Elvis has left the building on this subject.

Peace to all.................
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Postby thomas_w_bowman » Wed Jun 09, 2010 5:32 am

Image

Returning to topic - looks like the Govt will be the sole funding for Medical care within a decade or less (unless recent law is repealed)

Health-care overhaul claims its 1st victim?
'Considerable uncertainties' forcing Virginia-based insurance company to close doors
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0610/38194.html
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Postby fussnfeathers » Wed Jun 09, 2010 9:48 am

I'll give you NYC. It's on the fringe of what I would call "northeast". I'm particularly referring to VT, NH, Maine, Mass (Boston has a steady stream of foreign studends, though), RI, parts of NY, although that's typically mentioned as a section all it's own. Buffalo and Rochester being that far north and west.

Hey, the government taking over healthcare is what all Obama's supporters wanted, isn't it? I don't want to hear one peep out of them as their taxes skyrocket and healthcare gets worse than it is now. About the only good thing is the regulation of private insurance co's. Pretty sure everyone is tired of the rip-off artists in that business.
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