Global Warming---Cooling---MAKE UP YOUR MIND!!

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Global Warming---Cooling---MAKE UP YOUR MIND!!

Postby tedybear » Wed Jun 20, 2007 6:38 pm

http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/fina ... db11f4&p=4


Outstanding read!

The mud at the bottom of B.C. fjords reveals that solar output drives climate change - and that we should prepare now for dangerous global cooling
R. TIMOTHY PATTERSON, Financial Post
Published: Wednesday, June 20, 2007

Politicians and environmentalists these days convey the impression that climate-change research is an exceptionally dull field with little left to discover. We are assured by everyone from David Suzuki to Al Gore to Prime Minister Stephen Harper that "the science is settled." At the recent G8 summit, German Chancellor Angela Merkel even attempted to convince world leaders to play God by restricting carbon-dioxide emissions to a level that would magically limit the rise in world temperatures to 2C.

The fact that science is many years away from properly understanding global climate doesn't seem to bother our leaders at all. Inviting testimony only from those who don't question political orthodoxy on the issue, parliamentarians are charging ahead with the impossible and expensive goal of "stopping global climate change." Liberal MP Ralph Goodale's June 11 House of Commons assertion that Parliament should have "a real good discussion about the potential for carbon capture and sequestration in dealing with carbon dioxide, which has tremendous potential for improving the climate, not only here in Canada but around the world," would be humorous were he, and even the current government, not deadly serious about devoting vast resources to this hopeless crusade.

Climate stability has never been a feature of planet Earth. The only constant about climate is change; it changes continually and, at times, quite rapidly. Many times in the past, temperatures were far higher than today, and occasionally, temperatures were colder. As recently as 6,000 years ago, it was about 3C warmer than now. Ten thousand years ago, while the world was coming out of the thou-sand-year-long "Younger Dryas" cold episode, temperatures rose as much as 6C in a decade -- 100 times faster than the past century's 0.6C warming that has so upset environmentalists.


Just a sample of this excellent news story on Climate Change.

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Postby CivilDissent » Wed Jun 20, 2007 7:22 pm

:wink: :D :D :D
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Postby RockyAMD » Wed Jun 20, 2007 9:06 pm

This whole "Global Warming" doesn't make sense to me.
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Postby evasive » Thu Jun 21, 2007 5:52 am

Maybe we finally got away from the cooling effects of the eruption of Krakatoa:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krakatoa

In the past (the last ice age) another volcano seems to have pumped large amounts of ashes into the sky, dramatically cooling down the earth. That or some meteorite struck, they still don't know exactly...

There's just too many factors involved here. As it stands now we will loose the polar bear before 2020 (that's right, no polar bears after that) but hey, the mammoth went under long ago and we didn't mind back then either.
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Postby tedybear » Thu Jun 21, 2007 2:33 pm

I've heard quite a bit of back stepping with the polar bear "problems" (mostly due to Mr. Gorebals photo of a drowning polar bear--They SWIM!! not drown)

At any rate.. One research group that studies something like 20 polar bear colonies up in the great white north has stated only 2 colonies have population decline. The rest? Doing quite well actually, in fact adding to the 'ranks' nicely.

The whole idea of global warming and cooling at this stage? Is about 90% political in nature IMO. We do NOT know all the factors, nor should we be so arrogant to think that we can destroy this planet. The given fact of Solar increases and decreases having a direct effect on our climate? Actually makes sense. I know it won't help the alarmists that are screaming about it. But when you have one science group state that mankind only has a carbon effect of about 5-8% of the total? (nature is responsible for the other 90%).. I fail to see why everyone gets so worked up about it? To the degree of having groups like "E.L.F" setting fires to S.U.V.s, and doing enviro-terror stunts.

And you know it's getting even more silly when the studies are now looking at COW BURPS AND COW FARTS?!?!? as a dreaded source of green house gases. If that's the case? Screw PETA and the Vegan croud. Let's all eat STEAK tonight and help decrease the bull population LOL.

Everyone can agree we MUST do better for car/industry emissions and clean up the water and air. That's a given! I like breathing clean air, and the smog I've had to deal with? Is pretty nasty. Do I think it's having a severe effect on Global Warming? It's far to early to tell...might just be natures way of adjusting the thermostat as it tends to do.

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Postby Ghen » Tue Jun 26, 2007 8:13 pm

Best solution to global warming IMO is to fund NASA and terrafarming R&D.


MARS BABY!! WOOOOOOO
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Postby ih8dishnet » Sat Aug 04, 2007 8:22 am

Global warming is just a conspiracy theory to get elections paid for so these idiots running our country can find ways to make better things that go boom. dont get me wrong i am a big fan of exsplosions hell who isnt but frankly i dont want all the things i have worked so hard to get to be destroyed by anyone else but me PDT_Armataz_01_03

all that has to be done is look into the past the earth heats and it cools, also we arent going away from the sun we are slowly moving closer and if i am not mistaken the sun is a really hot place and you would think moving closer would make it warmer. another thing to think about, all of our factories and our cars and everything else we pump out into the open does not compare to the crap that was in the air when this was an extreamly volcanic planet. and if the earth cant destroy its self then who the hell are we to say we are. when there is nothing but sulfuric acid in the air to breath then i will beleive that my cavalier with the holes in the exhaust maybe had something to do with it untill then i am not getting my car fixed :P
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Postby Pette Broad » Sat Aug 04, 2007 2:18 pm

ih8dishnet wrote:all that has to be done is look into the past the earth heats and it cools, also we arent going away from the sun we are slowly moving closer and if i am not mistaken the sun is a really hot place and you would think moving closer would make it warmer. another thing to think about, all of our factories and our cars and everything else we pump out into the open does not compare to the crap that was in the air when this was an extreamly volcanic planet. and if the earth cant destroy its self then who the hell are we to say we are. when there is nothing but sulfuric acid in the air to breath then i will beleive that my cavalier with the holes in the exhaust maybe had something to do with it untill then i am not getting my car fixed :P


In fact we are moving away from the sun, although it won't do us any good over billions of years due to the suns expansion as it uses up its fuel.

new scientist wrote: After expanding to engulf Mercury, the Sun will have only 72.5 per cent of its present mass, while the expansion to the present Earth's orbit will see it left with only 59.1 per cent of today's mass. As the Sun's gravity weakens, the planets will move outwards. Venus will drift out to 1.22 times the Earth's present distance, while the Earth will move to 1.69 times as far away as it is today. This will make its orbit that of Mars today. However, even at such a distance, the Earth will be heated to a temperature of 1600 K, at which point rocks melt.

The Sun will shed a little more mass as it contracts to a white dwarf, letting Venus and Earth retreat to 1.34 and 1.85 times the Earth's current distance from the Sun. Both planets will then freeze as they orbit the shrunken embers of the Sun.



Yes, when the earth was going through extreme vulcanism the Earth was a much warmer place and CO2 levels were much higher than today. In those days, a few hundred million years ago there was very little ice anywhere on Earth and sea levels were 100-200 feet higher than today.

There's too many factors here and too many unknowns. What happens if the Atlantic current switches off, if the Jet Stream shifts, if a giant volcano errupts. In the short tem though I see us having to deal with rising sea levels, not a real problem if you live in Switzerland but not so good for maritime nations. We'll also have to deal with more and more extreme weather, rarely does a day go by without reading about floods in Asia, Droughts in Australia and Africa, Forest Fires in The U.S and heatwaves in Southern Europe. Over here we've had the warmest April on record, the wetest Summer on record with unprecedented flooding and one of the biggest Wind Storms ever seen and that's just in the last few months :o . Whatever the cause the climate is changing and changing fast.

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Postby tedybear » Sat Aug 04, 2007 2:31 pm

With respect. Even the best scientists looking into all this? Now states mankind only effects "Global Climate Change" to a degree of less then 5 percent. The recorded temp raise over the last 100 years? (global temp) has only increased 0.5 degrees.

What this should teach us, along with looking at the millions of years of history this planet has undergone(which shows some extreme hot times..and cold times...all in 'flux' ever changeing) Point being? Is that to sit back and claim EVERYTHING is the fault of "human kind".. And that we'd better change our ways, otherwise we are screwed---Is pretty much a pile of horse crap.

Last year people screamed about the massive number of H'Canes the US had to prepare for!! Forecasts of extreme doom and gloom..... And now? They have had to lower the number of expected H'Canes due to lack of storm activity.

The earth and it's weather patterns is always changing--we have little impact on it (less then 5% total worldwide) So I think Al Gorebels can take his ownership of his carbon credit company, and shove it up his rump.

That being said? We should do better at cleaning up our own back yards, cleaner air is something everyone should want, along with clean water... But Pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee Save the hystricssssssss....

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Postby CivilDissent » Mon Aug 06, 2007 11:11 am

In fact we are moving away from the sun, although it won't do us any good over billions of years due to the suns expansion as it uses up its fuel.


Although the reference is not specifically towards the thought, it makes the great point that it took "billions and billions" of years, as Carl Sagan would say, to get to the point we are now. In that period of time, there are no straight lines. Weather cycles, there are floods and then droughts in the same place, over time. Weather has changed, regardless of human input and is obvious in places where there are old and ancient settlements. These settlements show ebbs and flows in dry and wet spells that were not caused by Al Gore's car theory. :wink:

Yes, when the earth was going through extreme vulcanism the Earth was a much warmer place and CO2 levels were much higher than today. In those days, a few hundred million years ago there was very little ice anywhere on Earth and sea levels were 100-200 feet higher than today.


There are many factors to "extreme vulcanism" including a thicker crust that has been created by natural cooling of the core of the Earth. Because of this, the earths core is "farther" away from the surface supplying less heat and, therefore, making ice easier to form."Vulcanism" can be and is caused by natural fissures and cracks in the Earths surface whereby molten mantle, affected by heat expansion and many times fluids such as water, follows the fissure to the surface and through it.

Also, because the pressure of the mantle has to penetrate a harder and thicker surface, the affects are even greater. Sort of like water penetrating a plastice bag vs. a pvc pipe. The bag will cause a softer "pop" and flow much quicker, vs. water, of the same pressure, will cause less flow per minute but the flow being higher and more visible. Example....last week in New York City.

There are also plate techtonics to deal with. As the Earths' crust thickens, effects caused by these techtonics are less often yet more pronounced. More pressure builds up behind the now thicker crust causing quakes that are less often but much more powerful when the crust shifts.

There is sooo much more to it that people such as AG want you to forget about.
Last edited by CivilDissent on Tue Aug 07, 2007 12:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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