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trexntx
Black Belt 5th Degree
Joined: 10 Mar 2004
Posts: 8012
Location: Fort Worth
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 Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Karlsweldt wrote: | | Read a CNN "crawler" about President Bush procaliming that all Government buildings will fly the flag at half-staff until after the interrment of the Pope. Very respectful. The Vatican is acknowledged as a "state" or "soverign" entity. |
Yeah, I noticed a school down the street had theirs at half-staff.
Here is some interesting information.
| Quote: | Half-Mast Rules
Official Dates to fly half-mast:
Peace Officers Memorial Day, May 15th
Memorial Day, last Monday in May (Flag raised to full staff at noon)
Korean War Veterans Day, July 27th
Patriot Day, September 11th
Pearl Harbor Remembrance Day, December 7th
If your flag can't fly at Half-Mast:
For flags that can't be lowered, such as those on many homes, the American Legion says that attaching a black ribbon or streamer to the top of the flag is an acceptable alternative. The ribbon should be the same width as a stripe on the flag and the same length as the flag. (Now in Stock for 2x3' & 3x5' flags, Call to order 1-888-697-3524)
For a wall mounted flag, three black mourning bows should be atached to the top edge of the flag, one at each corner and one in the center.
Other Rules:
Only the President and state Governors can decide when and how long the flag should be flown at half-staff.
Thirty days after the death of a president or former president.
Ten days after the death of a vice president, the chief of justice or a retired chief of justice or the speaker of the house of representatives.
Until the burial of an associate justice of the Supreme Court, secretary of a military department, a former vice president, or the governor of a tate, territory, or possession.
On the day of and the day after the death of a member of Congress.
On Memorial Day, the day set aside to honor all the people who have died while serving the United States & originally called Decoration Day, the flag is flown at half-mast until noon, then raised to full staff until sundown. |
I respect the Pope for being the main influence behind the fall of communisim. When he visited Warsaw for the first time after becoming the Pontiff, one fourth of the entire population of Poland was there to see him. One fourth!!!!  Without his support of Solidarity and Lech Walesa, it is probable that the Soviet Union would still exist.
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Oylpann
Black Belt 3rd Degree
Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 3843
Location: Oklahoma City, OK
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| Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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http://www.globalsecurity.org/org/news/2005/050404-pope-nuclear.htm
| Quote: | Daily News April 04, 2005
Pontiff OKd Reagan's nuke plans, diplo says
By James Gordon Meer
WASHINGTON - Pope John Paul II gave his blessing to the late President Ronald Reagan's plans to put nuclear missiles across Western Europe, a former U.S. representative at the Vatican said yesterday.
Though European leaders were "weak-kneed" about confronting the Soviet nuclear empire, Reagan won the Pope's support for matching the Communists nuke for nuke along the Iron Curtain, said Jim Nicholson, who served until recently as President Bush's ambassador to the Holy See.
The purpose of the pontiff's secret approval was to confront the Soviet Union's placement of its growing arsenal in Eastern Bloc states near free European nations, said Nicholson, now the Veterans Affairs secretary.
Nicholson said Reagan "regularly" sent military emissaries to show the pontiff satellite imagery of Soviet missiles spreading across occupied Europe.
"The Pope supported us in putting cruise missiles into Europe at that time, which few people know," Nicholson told "Fox News Sunday."
A top U.S. general who spoke Polish would be dispatched to the Vatican "regularly and lay this out and tell the Pope what was going on militarily," Nicholson recalled.
"And the Pope said to President Reagan, 'They are needed; you should do it,'" Nicholson said.
Experts and former defense officials said they were unaware of the Pope's backing of America's nuclear buildup in Europe - but were hardly surprised, given his anti-Communist stance.
"I think it's true," said Lawrence Korb of the Center for American Progress, who was a senior Pentagon official in the Reagan administration. "It does seem logical. That was a tough time to get the missiles in."
John Pike, a defense analyst at GlobalSecurity.org, said John Paul II was "thick as thieves" with the CIA in trying to bring down communism in his native Poland, and he might have endorsed the confrontation.
"I wouldn't put it past him" to support Reagan's missile plan, Pike said.
But one group it might have surprised was the U.S. National Conference of Catholic Bishops, which denounced nuclear proliferation in the 1980s as immoral. |
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tedybear
Black Belt 5th Degree
Joined: 14 Feb 2004
Posts: 7252
Location: Fulton, New York, on Earth
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| Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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Heard a report on the way to a location. A few of the "extream" anti-religion groups are throwing a KING SIZED hairball over the flag being lowered to 1/2 staff.
They are trying to say "See....now they are forcing Catholic faiths down everyone's throat"....what a pant load. Can't these people just:
SHUT THE PIEHOLE!!!
Great man passes away. Set his "posistion" aside.. what he did, was amazing. So if you are wrapped up in your anti-popeness? Please shut the cake-hole, have some respect for the dead..and respect for others...This is not the time to knit-pick every little thing...
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trexntx
Black Belt 5th Degree
Joined: 10 Mar 2004
Posts: 8012
Location: Fort Worth
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| Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 3:28 am Post subject: |
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| tedybear wrote: | Heard a report on the way to a location. A few of the "extream" anti-religion groups are throwing a KING SIZED hairball over the flag being lowered to 1/2 staff.
They are trying to say "See....now they are forcing Catholic faiths down everyone's throat"....what a pant load. Can't these people just:
SHUT THE PIEHOLE!!!
Great man passes away. Set his "posistion" aside.. what he did, was amazing. So if you are wrapped up in your anti-popeness? Please shut the cake-hole, have some respect for the dead..and respect for others...This is not the time to knit-pick every little thing...
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This says it all...
Only the President and state Governors can decide when and how long the flag should be flown at half-staff.
Obviously the choice of the President. One of the few decisions he has made that I have no problem with. 
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Karlsweldt
Enlightened Master
Joined: 12 Nov 2003
Posts: 17265
Location: 07438
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| Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 4:51 am Post subject: |
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| There is also news that the Nobel Peace Prize may be awarded post-humously to the Pope, for his achievements of humanitarian concern, and in his uniting of many faiths. There are not many instances of this coveted award going to religious entities. |
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colinJohn
Black Belt 3rd Degree
Joined: 24 Jul 2004
Posts: 3430
Location: UK
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| Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 5:08 am Post subject: |
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.......and he's now called pope john the great and he'll be made a saint.....
<sigh>
he appointed all but 3 of the cardinals that now choose the next pope (from amongst themselves). I was hoping for a progressive pope but it looks unlikely.
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tedybear
Black Belt 5th Degree
Joined: 14 Feb 2004
Posts: 7252
Location: Fulton, New York, on Earth
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| Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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I've always considered the Pope II (sounds like a cool movie title) to be more of a 'modern' type considering what he did manage to do.
He did quite a bit of traveling, extended his hand in friendship to people of all faiths and backrounds. Even gave a heartfelt "sorry" in regards to the churches actions back in WW2, and the treatment of the Jews at the hands of "ScrambleBrain" Hitler. Extended his hand towards the followers of just about all major faiths in the world in fact in his travels.
Working towards bringing about the downfall of the former ussr...(I love the quotes I found online when he and Reagan got together...really good stuff).
Was the guy 100% perfect? Nope...handleing of the priests getting nailed with their hands where they should never have been? Very disappointed with how he handled that. But his flaws are clearly outweighed by the things he managed to get done...people he met with...and friendships across the lines of faith.
Now I hear people on the radio and TV starting their B/S against him and the church. People that are soooo wrapped up in their own 'agenda' they refuse to admit the good things he did, and only point out what he did/did'nt do which "offended" their agenda. These are the people I really feel sorry for. You can't force your agenda on people. What I heard while driving around today was a bunch of agenda driven idiots that came off sounding very "elite"..As if their crap did'nt stink, and we should kiss the ground they walk on because they are sooooo "Enlightened". I think what annoyed them the most is that unlike an "election" process which the public has control...This "Conclave" is private, and won't be swayed by focus groups..polls...or pressure from special interests..They are going to do what they feel is right for the Church at "This" time. Prehaps they will find a more "moderate" pope.. Considering the actions of Pope John Paul II? he was prehaps more "moderate" and "out-reaching" then he's been given credit for today by the same "elite-speak" bunch.
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colinJohn
Black Belt 3rd Degree
Joined: 24 Jul 2004
Posts: 3430
Location: UK
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| Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 11:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Now I hear people on the radio and TV starting their B/S against him and the church |
I've heard almost none of this here in the UK. It's almost impossible at the moment to say anything vaguely negative about the guy without seeming to be churlish or inapropriate.
But the fact is he was extreemly conservative in some very important areas that had a profound effect on the world (most notably, his personal anti-contraception position in the 3rd world has caused possibly millions of deaths through AIDS) and these seemingly negative things should be discussed as openly as his undeniable great work in other areas - notably during the cold war.
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kokalo
Black Belt 1st Degree
Joined: 30 Jun 2004
Posts: 1065
Location: Downunder (NZ)
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| Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2005 2:59 am Post subject: |
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| Karlsweldt wrote: | | Read a CNN "crawler" about President Bush procaliming that all Government buildings will fly the flag at half-staff until after the interrment of the Pope. Very respectful. The Vatican is acknowledged as a "state" or "soverign" entity. |
Vatican actually is a City-State, like San Marino and Monaco. Even though it is all within a large surrounding city (Rome) it has its own government, passport, and diplomatic corps.
Flaggs at half-staff (or half-mast) for an extended period of time are a bit more than what most other foreign leaders get, but in my eyes, The Pope was a bit more than just any president/prime minister. (through the effect his actions have/have had).
A great worker for peace love, understanding and acceptance between people. Very controversial for some of his statements and actions (or inactions for that matter), but what he says is regarded as more powerfull than what some of us posting here do, because of his position. He was a mouthpiece for over a billion people throughout the world, of every color, age, and language. Everything he said or wrote had to be balanced against so many other issues and concerns, which was a great responsibility. I for one think he did a good job and he did it for a long time - some people don't work a 40 hour week for 26 years, he lived his position for that long, and he was a priest devoted to the good of the people for even longer than that. (But you could call me biased - I'm a Catholic myself)
He will be missed, but in words to the effect of his own after being asked about the possibility of resigning as a Pope: "I will let Christ release me from my duites". His time came and thankfully he didn't suffer too long.
My greater concern is about who the new Pope will be, and where will he take Catholic Church in the years to come, but then again, I have no say in that matter so...
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kltsin
Black Belt 2nd Degree
Joined: 29 Jun 2004
Posts: 2782
Location: St. Augustine, Fl
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| Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:08 am Post subject: |
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Yes another dead pollock like myself, im just dead inside.
Does anyone know what he really did?
Since it was pointed out that it is a state (vatican i suppose) whats to treat him like any politician.
Isnt it a board and collective group that really does all of the dirty work, or actually all work and he is the guy that just made appearances for the entire catholic church, did he have a say...
Maybe Strom Thurman had hired bullies to force him to do things we will never know.
He was in control as all of the pedophiles priests were hushed away and then "rehabilitated' and then abused children again and again.
That alone should have sent down alot more red flags than it had once we found out pedophile priests were sent to a different church to diffuse the situation.
Looking back when mother Theresa died happened to be at the same time Princess Diana died, no one gave a $%^!@# about her all people and the media cared about was lady Di.... ack
Point being its fruitless to care, religion and the media are the same entity, it is hog wash, but its admirable to stand by your morals and beliefs and nothing can take that away.
I am not trying to denounce a pope but pointing a finger at the structure and how things are done and it wont matter whos the head guy as long as there is an issue somewhere it should reflect the entire governing system.
Normally I wouldnt have gone this far especially from the death of possibly a great man or a puppet. Believing in something and someone is what religion is based on and I apologize for pointing out hypocracies at this time that may seem to attack but actually was meant on a reflection. |
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