Hunt for weapons officially over.

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Hunt for weapons officially over.

Postby trexntx » Wed Jan 12, 2005 7:32 am

Almost two years after ordering troops into Iraq to locate WMD's that our government insisted were there the search has been officially called off. The top CIA weapons hunter is home, and analysts are back in Langly, VA.

They actually ceased operation before Christmas due to the levels of violence there.

What kind of a president can justify sending people off to die for a bogus reason? Before you send our best off to die, you DAMN sure ought to be absolutely positive about your reason.

Once again, I am ashamed and further alarmed that Bush is our president.

Of course, all the people that voted for him think it's no big deal. So what if there were no weapons and we invaded a country on false pretenses, Saddam was a bad man. :roll: :twisted:

Well, I hate to say I told you so...

but...

And the elections that are supposed to be held this month. What a joke.
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Postby miki02131 » Wed Jan 12, 2005 8:27 am

What you forget is that there was a pretext and a true reason for going. The pretext is the WMD. We all knew that was the face. The true reason is our own interest or at best the interest of corporate oil. I have to be honest here.

You need to understand Pepe, if the oil stops coming our economy will collapse. I hate to see american soldiers diying but I would also hate to see our economy collapse to a second world level if for any reason they stop sending the oil.

Let me emphasize here again that I am being honest. I am not trying to justify it. It might be an immoral statement but politics and honesty are directly opposite. An excellent politician is by nature an excellent liar. Only the honest ones get caught. :lol: :lol: If you're honest don't get involved in politics.
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Postby trexntx » Wed Jan 12, 2005 8:42 am

if the oil stops coming our economy will collapse.


Really?

Believe me, we do not need to rely on middle eastern oil. Besides, I don't see how invading Iraq insured more oil, seems that the opposite is currently true what with all the pipelines being sabotaged.

If we are given a reason for invading a country and it was a lie, then we are there on false pretenses and need to withdraw as soon as practical.

Those who voted for Bush (the moral candidate :roll: ) should all share the burden. Instead of simply placing magnetic ribbons on the rear of their cars they should be transporting their children and grandchildren down to the recruiter to enlist them for service in Iraq. :twisted:
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Postby colinJohn » Wed Jan 12, 2005 9:29 am

If we are given a reason for invading a country and it was a lie, then we are there on false pretenses....


yup. we are.

and need to withdraw as soon as practical


yup. we do.
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Postby greytrains » Wed Jan 12, 2005 10:07 am

trexntx wrote:
if the oil stops coming our economy will collapse.


Really?

Believe me, we do not need to rely on middle eastern oil. Besides, I don't see how invading Iraq insured more oil, seems that the opposite is currently true what with all the pipelines being sabotaged.

If we are given a reason for invading a country and it was a lie, then we are there on false pretenses and need to withdraw as soon as practical.

Those who voted for Bush (the moral candidate :roll: ) should all share the burden. Instead of simply placing magnetic ribbons on the rear of their cars they should be transporting their children and grandchildren down to the recruiter to enlist them for service in Iraq. :twisted:


Can I assume the you have never been in the military?

Can you show me, out of the people we had to chose from, the "moral candidate." I have yet to see a polotician that is "moral." I voted for Bush only because Kerry would not stick to a view. Besides Bush won the election, get over it. You only have to deal with it for four more years.

Here is a map of the election results county by county. Bush in Red, Kerry in Blue

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Postby miki02131 » Wed Jan 12, 2005 10:11 am

What powerful people want is what will happen. This might be anti democratic but that's true and it has been true for ages. Unless, you're under some narcotic, dreaming that we the people are really in control. Even if bush weren't elected, you shouldn't think any other elected was going to withdraw from Iraq just like you're saying.

A withdraw will be possible at this point if we win and stabilize iraq with some sort of democratic face. Or we lost and Iraq becomes a Islamic state. Or reinstate the Saddam army as a dictatorship and give Iraq control back to the Sunni Minority. Let them recontrol the shiite majoority as in the past. Or divide Iraq into several smaller states regardless of what the arab world will say. No solution is a good solution in Iraq. Or at best, encircle the area where the oil is and let the rest fight a civil war while we're protecting the oil.

What else am I missing? No matter what we do next, I don't think we should withdraw without securing the oil. Otherwise, all the kids who died would really died in vain.
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Postby Copper » Wed Jan 12, 2005 10:25 am

i dont have problem with war , i have big problem with the lies we were told to take us to war
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Postby miki02131 » Wed Jan 12, 2005 10:39 am

trexntx wrote:
if the oil stops coming our economy will collapse.


Really?

Believe me, we do not need to rely on middle eastern oil.


Yes, please I want to believe you.

Tell me where else we going to get it. Don't tell me about alternative power sources, they are not up to the point where they can be massively exploited. By the way, that's what I studied. Now, that this out of the question, please tell me where you would get what you would replace the Middleastern oil.
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Postby trexntx » Wed Jan 12, 2005 11:10 am

miki02131 wrote:
trexntx wrote:
if the oil stops coming our economy will collapse.


Really?

Believe me, we do not need to rely on middle eastern oil.


Yes, please I want to believe you.

Tell me where else we going to get it. Don't tell me about alternative power sources, they are not up to the point where they can be massively exploited. By the way, that's what I studied. Now, that this out of the question, please tell me where you would get what you would replace the Middleastern oil.


We have more than enough oil here in the United States, but we don't want to rely on it. Alternative sources are advancing daily also.

My boss is also in the oil business. :wink:


*******************

Can I assume the you have never been in the military?


U.S. Regular Army from 1975 to 1980. Father was Air Force. Two uncles U.S. Army. One grandfather Navy, one U.S. Army Air Force. Brother currently serving and retiring from 20+ years Naval service in one year. Didn't count cousins or ancestors that served in the Civil War and others.

So the obvious answer is yes. And you and yours?

Can you show me, out of the people we had to chose from, the "moral candidate." I have yet to see a polotician that is "moral." I voted for Bush only because Kerry would not stick to a view. Besides Bush won the election, get over it. You only have to deal with it for four more years.


I only mentioned "moral" because the polls showed that the main issue to people was the perceived morality of the candidate and not the Iraq war or being lied to, and these were the people that pushed Bush over the edge in his so called "mandate." As for the lame "catch all" statement that "Bush won the election, get over it.", all I can ask is this...

Does "getting over it" mean I have to shut up and accept wrong when I see it? If I was talking about recounts or hanging-chads in Florida you would have a valid point, but I am not talking about that am I? Just because Bush "won" doesn't mean I have to like it. :roll:

Sheesh.

Is it moral to send kids off to war and die for a lie?
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Postby efs2 » Wed Jan 12, 2005 12:24 pm

Greetings:
The AP story on the end of the search also referred to Bush's creation of "a panel to investigate why the intelligence about Iraq's weapons was wrong."

I don't have to rely on any investigation. In the months leading up to the war, I remember very clearly hearing many informed voices saying that there was no credible evidence of WMDs in Iraq.

Apparently a big part of being morally superior is to lie and when caught lie even harder.

But my favorite part of the AP story is a quote from White House Press Secretary (i.e., professional liar) Scott McClellan:
"Nothing's changed in terms of his views when it comes to Iraq, what he has previously stated and what you have previously heard," McClellan said. "The president knows that by advancing freedom in a dangerous region we are making the world a safer place."


Apparently Bush's moral superiority instills in him a divine certainty of his own infallibility.
I wonder what it is like to know and follow God's will so clearly.
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