TV Pixel Issue

Post here if you just want to chat about... whatever.

Moderator: The Mod Squad

Postby Spark » Wed Jan 25, 2012 3:57 pm

evasive wrote:There's always the odd chance one of the chips has become loose a bit as well, these days of BGA chips and fast flux soldering is more common than you'd want it to....


I will take a vey careful look when I open it up. At this point with me , it's a crap shoot. Thanks........
Spark
Anti-Static Strap
Anti-Static Strap
 
Posts: 485
Joined: Thu Jan 11, 2007 10:36 pm

Postby Spark » Wed Jan 25, 2012 3:58 pm

Karlsweldt wrote:
Must capacitors go in a certain direction like plus or minus? Can they be checked while still installed on the board or must they be removed first[/quote?]
Yes, capacitors MUST be installed according to polarity. In 99% of instances, the polarity is marked on the PC board.. with a half-moon shape painted to represent the negative polarity. There also may be the + and - markings. Capacitors are polarity-sensitive, causing a shorting effect if installed wrong. Some capacitors are not as polarity-sensitive, such as the "dry" or "ceramic" type.. but still should be installed with polarity in mind.
And yes, the old item must first be removed without damaging the circuit traces or PC board. Then an exact replacement installed.. or you will alter the design of the circuit. Use of a soldering gun or iron of about 80 watts or higher to work the solder joint is important. You want to "get in and get out" with the heat quickly so as to not cause damage to traces or nearby components. Use of soldering wick can help remove the solder dross.
Checking capacitors in-circuit is not advised, unless you have a special piece of test gear.. expensive! Capacitor Tester
Capacitors are designed for circuit use specifically. The majority of applications are intended to smooth the AC ripple and surges in power circuits, providing pure DC power. The secondary use of capacitors is as a coupling link between circuits having different voltages, to keep DC levels unchanged yet allow AC signals to pass as needed.


Than you for this information........
Spark
Anti-Static Strap
Anti-Static Strap
 
Posts: 485
Joined: Thu Jan 11, 2007 10:36 pm

Postby Spark » Mon Feb 06, 2012 1:19 pm

evasive wrote:out of warranty? open the back and check for bulging capacitors.

http://www.badcaps.net, this sounds just like it, gradually going worse.


Hello evasive...

I just got around to taking this Samsung 52 inch LCD TV off the wall, I didn't want to miss the super bowl game. There are two PCB's in this TV. One has a lot of small circuitry and the other one has larger components with chips, heat sinks, coils, etc, looks like the high voltage area of the TV.

I found 5 bulging caps and two or three of them seem to be leaking on the top. I posted a few pictures here. Now this TV worked fine but at cold boot it had a couple thousand red pixels on the screen. Shut the TV off and reboot and they all went away. The picture was great, nice and sharp and great color (1080P). This TV was made in 2007 but was only used for a total of 24 months.

Now that I have a better idea of what may be wrong, what do I do about it. I removed the PCB in question. What could have caused these caps to go bad? Where do I buy the exact caps? Is it better to just send the board away to have it fixed? Is it all worth it? What would be an about fix cost with this? I posted a few photo's............Thanks

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Spark
Anti-Static Strap
Anti-Static Strap
 
Posts: 485
Joined: Thu Jan 11, 2007 10:36 pm

Postby evasive » Tue Feb 07, 2012 1:19 am

What needs to be done: replace ALL the capacitors, and I mean ALL because they are all of the same brand.

Rubycon, Sanyo, Nichicon, Panasonic and Samxon are known good brands for replacement, you need you use low-ESR capacitors if you decide to buy them at Radio Shack or whatever. I think it will be easier to make a list of what is in there (capacitance/voltage) and send that list to http://www.badcaps.net stating what it is for and you will get a price quote before you order. You even can send in the PCBs if you want. Depends on how you value your soldering skills.


I cannot read the actual brand of your current bad caps, here is a list, see if it matches one of these, if not, please report:
Arcon ??
Canicon - http://www.canicon.com.tw/
Capxon - http://www.capxon.com.tw/
Chhsi - http://www.chhsi.com.tw (inactive site)
Choyo
CTC
DST
Elna
Fuh Yin - http://www.fuhyin.com.tw/
Fuhjyyu - http://www.fuhjyyu.com.tw/
Fujitsu (FPCAP) - http://edevice.fujitsu.com/fmd/en/products/fpcap/ (mixed results. can fail or be ok)
Gloria - http://www.gloria-cap.com.tw/ (inactive site)
G-Luxon - http://group.luxon.com.tw/
GL ??
Gsc - http://www.gsc-cap.com.tw/
Hec
Hermei - http://www.hermei.com.tw
I.Q.
Jackcon - http://www.jackcon.com.tw/
JDEC
Jee
Jpcon - http://www.jpcon.com/
Jun Fu - http://www.jun-fu.com/
Lelon - http://www.lelon.com.tw/
Licon
Nkcon
Nrsy - These are phony Nippon caps so no site.
Ost - http://www.ost.com.tw
Partsnic - http://www.partsnic.com/
Pce-tur
Raycon
Rubysun (Shenzen Eagle New Technology Electrical Industry Co. Ltd.) - http://www.ygxkjdz.com/
Rulycon - These are phony Rubycon caps so no site.
Skywell - http://www.skywellnet.com/
Stone - http://www.ystone.com.tw/ (not sure if this is the right one)
Supacon
Su'scon - http://www.su-scon.com.tw/
Taicon - http://www.taicon.com.tw/ (2 reports of fails only)
Tayeh
Teapo - http://www.teapo.com.tw/
Tocon - http://www.tocon.com.tw/
Wendell - http://www.wendell.com.tw/
Yec - http://www.yec.com.tw http://www.ylcorp.com.tw/ (neither working)
We hate rut, but we fear change.
********************************
System error, strike any user to continue...
evasive
Mobo-fu Master
Mobo-fu Master
 
Posts: 37389
Joined: Sun May 06, 2001 12:01 am
Location: Netherlands

Postby Spark » Tue Feb 07, 2012 5:48 am

evasive wrote:What needs to be done: replace ALL the capacitors, and I mean ALL because they are all of the same brand.

Rubycon, Sanyo, Nichicon, Panasonic and Samxon are known good brands for replacement, you need you use low-ESR capacitors if you decide to buy them at Radio Shack or whatever. I think it will be easier to make a list of what is in there (capacitance/voltage) and send that list to http://www.badcaps.net stating what it is for and you will get a price quote before you order. You even can send in the PCBs if you want. Depends on how you value your soldering skills.


I cannot read the actual brand of your current bad caps, here is a list, see if it matches one of these, if not, please report:
Arcon ??
Canicon - http://www.canicon.com.tw/
Capxon - http://www.capxon.com.tw/
Chhsi - http://www.chhsi.com.tw (inactive site)
Choyo
CTC
DST
Elna
Fuh Yin - http://www.fuhyin.com.tw/
Fuhjyyu - http://www.fuhjyyu.com.tw/
Fujitsu (FPCAP) - http://edevice.fujitsu.com/fmd/en/products/fpcap/ (mixed results. can fail or be ok)
Gloria - http://www.gloria-cap.com.tw/ (inactive site)
G-Luxon - http://group.luxon.com.tw/
GL ??
Gsc - http://www.gsc-cap.com.tw/
Hec
Hermei - http://www.hermei.com.tw
I.Q.
Jackcon - http://www.jackcon.com.tw/
JDEC
Jee
Jpcon - http://www.jpcon.com/
Jun Fu - http://www.jun-fu.com/
Lelon - http://www.lelon.com.tw/
Licon
Nkcon
Nrsy - These are phony Nippon caps so no site.
Ost - http://www.ost.com.tw
Partsnic - http://www.partsnic.com/
Pce-tur
Raycon
Rubysun (Shenzen Eagle New Technology Electrical Industry Co. Ltd.) - http://www.ygxkjdz.com/
Rulycon - These are phony Rubycon caps so no site.
Skywell - http://www.skywellnet.com/
Stone - http://www.ystone.com.tw/ (not sure if this is the right one)
Supacon
Su'scon - http://www.su-scon.com.tw/
Taicon - http://www.taicon.com.tw/ (2 reports of fails only)
Tayeh
Teapo - http://www.teapo.com.tw/
Tocon - http://www.tocon.com.tw/
Wendell - http://www.wendell.com.tw/
Yec - http://www.yec.com.tw http://www.ylcorp.com.tw/ (neither working)


Yes all the caps seem to be the same brand, all 16 of them. The name on the side says "SAMWHA"

I sent an email to badcaps and am waiting for a reply. After doing further research on this TV I have learned that several years are known to have this problem, mine included. This was an expensive TV at the time and had a fantastic picture.

I can understand why all the caps should be replaced because of the poor quality of their manufacture (electrolite issue it seems).
Spark
Anti-Static Strap
Anti-Static Strap
 
Posts: 485
Joined: Thu Jan 11, 2007 10:36 pm

Postby Karlsweldt » Tue Feb 07, 2012 10:37 am

Yes, all the capacitors should be replaced.. as otherwise the circuit chips will be damaged (over-voltage).. not to mention erosion of the traces from the caustic glop!
One main cause of the 'bad caps' was a faulty formula that was stolen and sold by a low-life character. The entire electronics industry was affected. Another cause was that inferior capacitors were re-labeled as better than originals.. and failed to meet requirements.
Specialized organizations (NASA, military) had higher-quality sources.. and did not suffer from those ailments, thank goodness!
When replacing those capacitors, use only the low-ESR* type, as noted by evasive. And when choosing any capacitor, use only the same Farad value and voltage rating. A higher voltage rating is acceptable, but never lower! Also, consider a 105°C rating over the standard 85°C rating, where high temperatures are noted.

*ESR means equivalent series resistance, a technical term for the formation of resistive conductivity in certain electronic components.. which can cause short-circuits and/or overheating.
Wiki link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equivalent ... resistance
"White Paper" on ESR factors: http://www.illinoiscapacitor.com/pdf/Pa ... iction.pdf
F@H.. to solve mankind's maladies.. in our lifetimes!
Karlsweldt
Mobo-fu Master
Mobo-fu Master
 
Posts: 20690
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2003 11:57 am
Location: 07438

Postby Roach412 » Tue Feb 07, 2012 12:18 pm

fill out a support ticket with samsung, and they'll fix it for free by installing a new power board - even out of warranty.

ask me how i know.

-Roach
Lian Li Lancool First Knight Series PC-K59W
Intel Core i7-960 Bloomfield 3.2GHz
EVGA X58 FTW3 132-GT-E768-TR
EVGA GeForce GTX 1070 FTW GAMING ACX 3.0
G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 12GB (3 x 4GB)
Crucial M4 128gb SATAIII SSD x2
Crucial M4 256gb SATAIII SSD
OCZ Saber 1000 960GB Enterprise SSD
Corsair Professional Series HX850 PSU
Dell UltraSharp U2713HM 27" w/drop ceiling mount
Logitech G930 7.1 Headset
DBPOWER RGB LED Keyboard
Logitech G402 Hyperion Fury
Roach412
Black Belt 2nd Degree
Black Belt 2nd Degree
 
Posts: 2718
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 7:33 pm
Location: Milwaukee - Wisconsin

Postby evasive » Wed Feb 08, 2012 1:56 am

oh, that would be even better, not think of that yet, did they get a class action suit on their behind for this one?
We hate rut, but we fear change.
********************************
System error, strike any user to continue...
evasive
Mobo-fu Master
Mobo-fu Master
 
Posts: 37389
Joined: Sun May 06, 2001 12:01 am
Location: Netherlands

Postby Roach412 » Wed Feb 08, 2012 8:47 am

no class action - they just admitted that it was a bad design decision and will replace the boards. they used outsourced parts during this timeframe, and they used under-powered capacitors. they typically didn't start showing problems until 2-3 years into the life of the TV (depending on use of course).

they've since switched to using their own supply chain to provide their own capacitors on just about everything in their products. samsung makes friggin' everything.

one of the reasons i'll probably continue to use samsung is the fact that they rectified this - even though legally they aren't obligated.

-Roach
Lian Li Lancool First Knight Series PC-K59W
Intel Core i7-960 Bloomfield 3.2GHz
EVGA X58 FTW3 132-GT-E768-TR
EVGA GeForce GTX 1070 FTW GAMING ACX 3.0
G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 12GB (3 x 4GB)
Crucial M4 128gb SATAIII SSD x2
Crucial M4 256gb SATAIII SSD
OCZ Saber 1000 960GB Enterprise SSD
Corsair Professional Series HX850 PSU
Dell UltraSharp U2713HM 27" w/drop ceiling mount
Logitech G930 7.1 Headset
DBPOWER RGB LED Keyboard
Logitech G402 Hyperion Fury
Roach412
Black Belt 2nd Degree
Black Belt 2nd Degree
 
Posts: 2718
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 7:33 pm
Location: Milwaukee - Wisconsin

Previous

Return to The Water Cooler

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest