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PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 8:15 am 
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MrG wrote:
bdub wrote:
to the point of "high" oil prices.... are they really "high" when the cost of oil has not been linked to the cost of inflation over the years? even with the high prices today, adjusted for inflation, gas prices today are actually lower than they were decades ago! i am talking in the US, here. some european countries are paying over $8 a gallon.

this ain't gonna be the fact forever.


I'm in the UK and 2 days ago I paid £1.32 per litre which equates to $9.67 per gallon! So don't tell me the price isn't high.


yeah, i was trying to convey the point to my fellow americans.

if oil prices went up here in america, by the amount it should when tagged to inflation, there would be a lot more local businesses becoming competitive with huge conglomerate companies, and therefore spread the wealth more evenly again... instead of amassing it into tiny enclaves of corporate structures.
local innovation would rise with competitveness, small businesses could hire more people. big box stores would be on the decline...

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 9:02 am 
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bdub wrote:
yeah, i was trying to convey the point to my fellow americans.

if oil prices went up here in america, by the amount it should when tagged to inflation, there would be a lot more local businesses becoming competitive with huge conglomerate companies, and therefore spread the wealth more evenly again... instead of amassing it into tiny enclaves of corporate structures.
local innovation would rise with competitveness, small businesses could hire more people. big box stores would be on the decline...


yet those businesses that would have a chance to prosper would be much more regionalized - and many would completely go under. there's a lot more impact that just "haha to the giant evil corporations" in that scenario.

(tens of)thousands of jobs would be lost simply from the inability to affordably move product and raw material around the country. regional pricing would most likely become incompatible with regional population and demand.

there are entire metropolises that would be forced to shut-down since they're more-or-less entirely reliant on those evil big-box stores. with such a shift in tax bases those who can afford to leave will, and those who can't will have much fewer choices, services and opportunity - putting huge strain on local municipalities, and even on entire states.

-Roach

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 5:47 am 
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no doubt, there would be a lot of shifting, but in the end we would make do, and i think we would be better for it. we can't stay on oil forever, there will be an end to it. do we want to just blindly hit the end, or be prepared?

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 6:45 am 
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IMO, easing into it will be like fighting a long drawn-out war...almost a class-war really.

it very well might be better to just "cut the cord" and get it over with.

just thinking out loud.

-Roach

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 4:00 pm 
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Lots of alternatives to fossil fuel power. Solar power is great for homes and businesses, but unwieldy on vehicles! Fuel cells use a gaseous fuel and air, but that fuel must be obtained from crude oil sources or other means. Electric vehicles are "fueled" from home outlets or charging stations, but where does that power originate from? And hydrogen-powered vehicles also depend primarily on a crude oil source for that hydrogen! Propane-powered vehicles are in use widely, but the primary fuel source is from crude oil sources. Pure alcohol-fueled vehicles are available, but the fuel is expensive.. and the delivery system on the vehicle has to be of a higher grade of materials than for gasoline or Diesel.
The Diesel engine is by far the best alternative, as it can burn almost any type of oily fuel.. from fossil fuel to vegetable oil! The latest generation of Diesel engines use a longer metered injection, so there is less noise and pollution. Rudolf Diesel invented that engine model to burn vegetable or peanut oil!!

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 10:14 am 
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It's around $3.50 here in Loo-siana right now.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 3:41 am 
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Location: Netherlands
current going prices in the netherlands:
gasoline (95 octane), 1,72 euro (2.44 us$) per liter
diesel, 1,41 euro (2 us$) per liter

converts to:
gasoline 9,24 us$ per gallon
diesel 7,57 us$ per gallon

quit whining.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 9:09 am 
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Difference is, Edwin, is The Netherlands has a pretty good public transport infrastructure.. Go to the US and you will see the problem - live in a city and transport is pretty good (buses, trains).. Hit the states like Arizona and you will see how people MUST have their own transport, for fuel, food and esp. water.. America is still very rural and big (widespread) to say the least... Increase fuel prices hurt us all...

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 10:52 am 
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$300/Barrel ?
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2011/04/0 ... MU20110405

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 12:22 pm 
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Mr T wrote:
Difference is, Edwin, is The Netherlands has a pretty good public transport infrastructure.. Go to the US and you will see the problem - live in a city and transport is pretty good (buses, trains).. Hit the states like Arizona and you will see how people MUST have their own transport, for fuel, food and esp. water.. America is still very rural and big (widespread) to say the least... Increase fuel prices hurt us all...


plus many countries in europe are smaller than individual states in the US. i chose to live very close to work - so i drive very little, generally less than 6-8k miles/year. the national average is closer to 15k miles/year. many of my old friends, and all my family, live 60-300 miles away - so trips to see them on a weekend or holiday account for a decent number of my miles travelled.

i love driving though - and will drive just to do it. it's my money, so i'll burn it however. :lol:

that being said, a lot of people live away from everything because it's convenient and not-that-expensive to do so. that group of consumers uses considerably more fuel than others, and do so because they can afford it currently. if prices went up and stayed up, then they probably wouldn't. it's a lifestyle decision really. i don't want to live in the city-centers around here. i don't care for them personally. i loved most of the large cities i lived in while in europe, but US city centers (except for the big 5 or 10) have what i would consider to be terrible public transit, and even worse city planning. i'd rather live on the outskirts, in the smaller cities where they are still building out the infrastructure intelligently - not duct-taping crap together to make some frankenstein monstrosity that is common here.

/rant
-Roach

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