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PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 10:40 am 
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Black Belt
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Location: VA
***Updated some specs***

Hi guys. It's been a while since I was back here.

I am building a couple machines with leftover parts and apparently I am on a learning curve with things that may have changed.

Build consists of:
* Old parts being repurposed. All were working prior to removal. *
Gigabyte p67a-d3-b3 socket 1155 motherboard.
I5 CPU, 2nd Gen.
LG standard optical DVD-RW SATA drive.

*New Parts *
OCZ 250 GB SSD
Seagate Hybrid 2 TB Sata drive
16 GB (4x4) GSkill Ripjaw DDR3-1600 Memory
Swapped in Corsair 650W CX650M PSU. ***removed - Thermaltake 650W Smart Power Performance PSU. ***
Thermaltake G41 Commander case.

All connected, press the power button, brief power light and it powers off and fades. After the power clears, it allows me to try again but same result.
Threw an older PSU tester on it to verify, no -5v on it.
I tried another new PSU I bought, a Corsair, and saw the same thing with that tester. I noticed on the box that there was no -5v listed and reading stuff around the internet I see it became optional and now is generally not even present.
This leads me to an educated guess that I can't use these PSUs on the older motherboards, maybe?

I've looked at all the cables and everything's the way it should be. I may try the other PSU to confirm but figured I could ask a quick question here and see if anyone could confirm my suspicions. I'd hate to waste time and effort on the build if the parts just won't work together. My alternative, since I have most of the other parts now, is simply get new mobo's and CPUs that work with newer PSUs.

Thanks in advance for any advice and my apologies if this is an already addressed topic. I looked but didn't see anything with this answer.

Joemc911

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Thermaltake V3 Black Edition Mid Tower Case
1 x OCZ ModXStream Pro OCZ700MXSP 700W ATX12V V2.2
ASUS P7P55D PRO
Intel Core i5-760 Lynnfield 2.8GHz LGA 1156 95W Quad-Core
Kingston HyperX 8GB (4x2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 1333
EVGA GTX-550 TI
Western Digital RE3 WD1002FBYS 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5
LG UH08LS10 Blu-ray Disc Combo Drive


Last edited by joemc911 on Wed Jun 08, 2016 6:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 2:41 pm 
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Mobo-fu Master
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Good to see you are still in the "DIY" game!
That -5 volt source has not been provided for more than 10 years. The -12 volt source is still provided, and if a device or feature needs the -5 volt source, an on-board regulator provides it.
Memory has to be matched to bus speed for the CPU, and have compatible voltage needs, as the memory controller is on the CPU die. Older memory requiring 3.3 volts will not page properly on 2.0 or lower voltage. That GSkill Ripjaw DDR3-1600 Memory is rated at 1.5 volts, so should be no problem.
But try again with just one module in the first-detected slot, to see if you can get into the BIOS pages. Test each module that way. Might be one module is faulty.
Depending on BIOS date for that board, it may not recognize the 1 TB SATA drive, unless partitioned within the BIOS limits.
Have you put in a new BIOS battery? If the battery is not providing 3.0 volts, the real-time clock may not be active.. and possibly no life signs when powered up. Have seen that a lot!
If using a high-end video card that requires a lead set from the PSU, ensure it is connected.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 6:21 pm 
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Black Belt
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Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 4:44 pm
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Location: VA
Hi Karlsweldt! Thanks for the reply!

Memory was already considered but not tested originally, but I did see it once where I bought a 4 stick pack of memory and had one fail. I have now tested each stick individually and also tried a stick of the original memory installed in it and the same result.

It's a 240 GB SSD in SATA 0, and a 2 TB (forgive me absentmindedness when I posted... lol) but the bios never comes in to play as to what it would recognize. It fires up long enough to spin the CPU fan and case fans and powers off. If it were getting to bios I would agree and be researching the bios update. Previously this only had 500 GB drives and I used the same mobo model to build a raid 10 setup so it should be ok with the drives.

No bios battery replacement, but again, it's not getting there. If it needed one the symptoms I am accustomed to is not saving the bios data but you could still get to post. Might try it, but not high on the list of suspects.

Using a fairly dated decent video card. A Nvidia GTX460 and both power connections are plugged in.

4 pin CPU Power is connected.

I have seen a few things on the internet saying the missing -5v "could cause some odd actions" but at this point I'm kind of at a loss. I have more than adequate power. I have all connections connected. I verified all the sata connections, power and data. Tested memory stick by stick. Checked the PSU with a tester, and because I had a spare brand new PSU I tested it as well and got the same indications. 24 Pin power connected properly.

It's not killing me to not have it working yet, but now it's more of a challenge than a hobby and I will get it to work. Fortunately I have a second spare mobo of the exact same model so I can slave it in and see if somehow I got a bad mobo or maybe I damaged it in the build. Never had it happen before but it could have happened.

So, wish me luck. If anyone else has any other ideas or experiences that may help shed some light on my dilemma please feel free to chime in! I will update if I find out more or have some successes. Probably going to get pushed to a weekend project so I don't stay up too late on a work night, but if I have short time commitment ideas to try I will give them a shot sooner.

Thanks again for the ideas Karlsweldt! Great to see a familiar face/name still around.

_________________
Thermaltake V3 Black Edition Mid Tower Case
1 x OCZ ModXStream Pro OCZ700MXSP 700W ATX12V V2.2
ASUS P7P55D PRO
Intel Core i5-760 Lynnfield 2.8GHz LGA 1156 95W Quad-Core
Kingston HyperX 8GB (4x2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 1333
EVGA GTX-550 TI
Western Digital RE3 WD1002FBYS 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5
LG UH08LS10 Blu-ray Disc Combo Drive


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 5:55 am 
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The majority of those PSU testers don't load the PSU properly, only indicating if "go or no-go".
A minimal load of about 3 amps must be on the +3.3 volt or +5 volt, and the +12 volt rails, to ensure the PSU regulates properly.
Load resistors get hot quickly, and can cause burnt fingers or worse. A headlamp bulb with two filaments would be a suitable minimal load, and be safer to use.. just don't touch the quartz bulb with bare fingers, as it may cause weakness of the bulb (absorbs skin oils).
The CPU fan has to be on its designated header, or may cause a POST fault and then shut-down. Other fans are not as critical in need. Normal for almost all systems to power up the fans on initiation, then they stop. The BIOS monitor checks they are functional, then if "good" goes into the POST routine.
Have you looked at all the capacitors on the board, especially the larger ones? Any that have domed tops, lean excessively or show leakage are bad. That "bad caps" plague is still with us. More info at www.badcaps.net/

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 6:16 pm 
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Black Belt
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Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 4:44 pm
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Location: VA
Alright, so I have done several things and had mixed (none really improved) results.

I slaved in the other new PSU. No real change. At one point it went to power light staying on but still not booting and having to reset the PSU to get it to allow me to try again.

I removed and slaved in a new motherboard, identical with same CPU. Same situation.

Will try a few more things this weekend.

The only thing I find that is different than the systems these used to work in is the power supply.

All build components are perfectly fine for the system. No smoke checks or shorts. Everything connected. I am still leaning to the possibility that the -5V might play a part. I know you said it's been missing for some time but with what I have read it is possible that even if it shouldn't cause a problem that it could...

Again, any more ideas are most welcome. If i don't find any success troubleshooting I will probably end up trying a new mobo/cpu combo to see if it works with that... Hate to spend more on what was supposed to be a simple system making use of old stuff that worked...

Will post any updates when I have some. Thanks again for the helpful advice!

_________________
Thermaltake V3 Black Edition Mid Tower Case
1 x OCZ ModXStream Pro OCZ700MXSP 700W ATX12V V2.2
ASUS P7P55D PRO
Intel Core i5-760 Lynnfield 2.8GHz LGA 1156 95W Quad-Core
Kingston HyperX 8GB (4x2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 1333
EVGA GTX-550 TI
Western Digital RE3 WD1002FBYS 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5
LG UH08LS10 Blu-ray Disc Combo Drive


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 5:55 am 
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Mobo-fu Master
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Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2003 11:57 am
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At times like this, the best tool to have is a POST diagnostics card. Not expensive for the basic models, but a 'pro' model could go beyond $200.00.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductLi ... isNodeId=1
Yes, they will display error codes even if the system is not working. The most feared code is "FF" or 'feature failure'. Then time to do the "swap dance" with a known-working compatible mobo, one feature at at time.
If more than 10 years since made, the board may truly need that -5 volt source. But since then, if needed, there is an on-board regulator that uses the -12 volt source for that need. The negative source leads are only intended for "fast-gate" needs, where a positive data cycle needs to be reverted to zero instantly.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2016 3:00 pm 
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Black Belt
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Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 4:44 pm
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Location: VA
Alright. As promised here's an update. I had to wait until I could find parts that made sense.

I chose to replace the motherboard and CPU with:

Intel Core i5-6400 Processor & Asus H170-Plus D3 Motherboard

This allowed me to carry forward all the parts intended for the build without having to replace anything. I was pretty happy to find a newer motherboard that accepted DDR3 memory.

Cut to the results:

Everything works great! It was indeed the motherboard needing the -5V input. I had reviewed the motherboard manual and it actually showed the -5V input on the 24 pin connector. The intended motherboard was about 5 years old but apparently was not happy with a newer Power Supply. I finished the build today and loaded the OS. It is pretty impressively quiet & Fast. Had I not had to expend any more funds I would be ecstatic with the results. The replacement parts were actually very reasonable so having my first 6th Gen processor is kind of a cool side effect.

Thanks again Karlsweldt for all the advice on this. It was all good info. Some things pointed me more in this direction that I couldn't really describe, you know just kind of a hunch that this was one of those oddball problems. Glad for the experience but hopeful I never need to refer back to it for actual issues.

_________________
Thermaltake V3 Black Edition Mid Tower Case
1 x OCZ ModXStream Pro OCZ700MXSP 700W ATX12V V2.2
ASUS P7P55D PRO
Intel Core i5-760 Lynnfield 2.8GHz LGA 1156 95W Quad-Core
Kingston HyperX 8GB (4x2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 1333
EVGA GTX-550 TI
Western Digital RE3 WD1002FBYS 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5
LG UH08LS10 Blu-ray Disc Combo Drive


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2016 5:38 am 
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Odd that a motherboard of that recent issue still required the -5 volt external source.
Good luck with your 'new' system! That old motherboard should bring a decent 'rebate' if sold.. but with a caution about needing the -5 volt PSU source.

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