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PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:16 am 
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Anyone know for sure? This is what I was told by a friend.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2004 6:44 pm 
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havent heard anything about programming jobs going overseas, but there are indeed a lot of jobs getting outsourced to overseas countries. The reason is cheaper salaries for the same work...

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 8:08 am 
There are problems galore on overseas job transfers.

Culture, language, timezone and technology. I think the jobs will all come back soon enough, due to the lack of obsolescence and replacement urgencies abroad? They don't have the pressure of time is money. Often, once written use forever software programming, still have business middleware changes necessary at the headquarters.

Most of the business abroad can only handle local business survival problems; not preventing business failures in the US. I have seen this over the last three decades.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 11:57 am 
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atang1 wrote:
There are problems galore on overseas job transfers.

Culture, language, timezone and technology. I think the jobs will all come back soon enough, due to the lack of obsolescence and replacement urgencies abroad? They don't have the pressure of time is money. Often, once written use forever software programming, still have business middleware changes necessary at the headquarters.

Most of the business abroad can only handle local business survival problems; not preventing business failures in the US. I have seen this over the last three decades.


I hope you are right because when I call Cisco, I sure hate talking to the Indi's and it's nothing against them but it's hard to understand them and their customer service.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 9:25 pm 
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Greedy people. I'm not looking to be rich. I just want a steady job in programming that pays decent money so I can be happy. I dont want to be rich. Everything that makes me happy costs pennies. I just need a job once I am done with school. I dont plan on working for someone for the rest of my life. I wan tot try and make my own money. With programming, there are so many different ways of making money :twisted: .

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2004 7:44 pm 
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last i heard and this was a while ago but i read that a lot of programming jobs were being outsourced to canada


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2004 6:17 am 
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I have worked in several companies that have moved a great deal of development to overseas (India, mostly - and I read that India is starting to outsource to China and Russia as well as other SouthEase Asian nations).

It's real. However it may not be saving all that it was supposed to (largely for reasone Atang1 has documented), maintenance is an issue - especailly where propietary languanges are used (languages based on C++ or JAVA code-generators - quick and easy to develop in, but without the generators, expensive and difficult to maintain - so as companies realize that they've locked themselves into a specific Company's language technology, they may desire to become untangled).

The opportunity that is NOT going away is QA (Testing). As a CSTE (Certified Software Test Engineer - QAI) I have noticed that many outsourced projects require comprehensive 'acceptance testing' and detailed documentation of any defects or shortcomings - so that they can be returned to the developers for required fixes. Also, I have found that documenting requirements well enough to be able to build detailed test cases as a start to a spec generally results in better and faster coding.

Learn how to use automated test tools, database modeling, and how to document 'bugs' with enough detail to identify the problem module(s), and there will always be 'local' work - because those functions are not going to be outsourced...they are the functions that will be checking on the outsourced development...

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2004 9:45 am 
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Don't know if these went overseas - or just went away - but this news link reports 60% increase in tech Job Layoffs from 2nd quarter 2004 to 3rd...
http://techrepublic.com.com/5100-22_11- ... ag=nl.e019

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2004 12:13 pm 
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Some jobs are going overseas just like some manufacturing jobs did in the 80s and 90s. However, its not as bad as many seem to fear. You notice what jobs went overseas with the auto-industry? It was mostly the low-level production lines. The cars were designed i the states and even assembled here. It was the smaller simplistic parts. There is a money savings for having an untrained and cheap work-force for some things, but will cost money for others. As for the tech world, I am friends with many Indians (the major center for tech job outsourcing) and you know what there is still a large number of them coming here for school and work. I have seen the shift more in types of work available here. There may be less "programming" jobs, that is those who simply code, but I have only seen increases in "developers" who design, engienering and program. Its mostly the routine support and bug fixing that I have seen shipped overseas.

A few years back putting "experience with Java and C++_" guaranteed you a good job. Now you need a bit more, but the jobs are still there. So those still in school make sure you get some other classes about desing and implementation to be more well-rounded and you'll find something. And if the jobs are overseas you can always move, you would get less pay (say 40k instead of the 60-90k here) but that money goes mcuh much further, in fact the few I know working over in India are considered the upper calss in income level and work a nice 30-40 hours a week.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2004 4:44 pm 
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As amusing as this sounds? Because if they did'nt do it in the first place they would'ent have wasted the resources LOL....

Some companies that went with sending programing jobs overseas have actually stopped the process and returned back to the good ol' USA for it's own people. Seems some of the outsourced "code" being written was extreamly buggy...people did'nt like talking to someone from India about a program bought in the U.S. And of course..The expenses are creaping up even for the 'low cost' outsourced programers as they "flex their muscles" to gain higher pay and benifits.

So while it does still happen? It's less and less lately, and some have gotten bit in the tuckas with the increased costs and customer complaints.

Poetic Justice?

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