Languages and scripts?

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Postby atang1 » Sat Sep 04, 2004 1:57 am

Script such as PHP of course is used to program this bulletin board software that Motherboards.org uses. It works well. The script is written and then compiled into machine language. The scritp is kept in a text editor to be changed anytime you feel like to make some improvement.

CGI script language is used mostly in webpage creation and business use.

Perl is very efficient and powerful. What script is is that words of script is defined as certain machine language functions to operate the computer. Writing script simply, can do very complex computer operations in a few words.

The development of VHLD language is used in integrated circuits. Where standard cell is smaller integrated circuit, which can be combined into very large integrated circuit. The largest is the cpu design of 146 million transistors. All you do is tell the VHLD what you want in the cpu.

We can use the VHLD language to do anything if the components of the language is a graphic icon with pictures and text. So, it will be very useful to do webpage beyond Microsoft powerpoint.

Once you decided on the job, the script used will be the easiest one for that type of a job.
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Postby miki02131 » Sun Sep 05, 2004 6:56 am

All computer languages are basically the same. All scripts are virtually the same. The difference in the level automation provided by a programing or script language. Thus, some are more suited for an application than others.

Still, I'd say:
Use Assembly Programming for Embedded, drivers, or specialized applications.
Use Fortran for engineering and mathematical modeling applications.
Use C or C++ for business applications.
Use Scripts (perl, java, .net, etc...) for internet related applications.

Your thoughts?
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Postby atang1 » Sun Sep 05, 2004 3:40 pm

You are presenting a very interesting proposal of programming selections.

However, if you look at my thoughts as we progress on scripts and languages. VHLD language is really a form of basic interpreter, without line numbers. It is a language that is, a program to write a program, based on data in the data base.

As a metter of fact, that the program to write a program, cheats in leaving the wizzards in the data base, before VHLD language instructions are invented.

If we program, We want to write a new program to do every wish we have now.

So, our every wish in the future has to have an efficient program to assemble the data in the data base and perform an operation on the data. I think they call them data mining. SAP uses VHDL.

Automobiles will be designed from the data base. Mercedes now look and feel like Chysler Many foreign cars look and feel like GM and Ford. The three largest automobile compamies invested hugh sums to own their software to design cars. Others can not afford the software.

Webpages will be designed from data base of page wizzards by cut and paste.

CPUs in computers are using VHLD languages to take out standard cicuits to assemble a 146 million transistor circuit from a large data bank of circuits. The outcome is a set of masks for lithography machine. Its called tapeout.

When languages and scripts do not have data base to draw on, they are not complete to do automation. Data base is the foundation of computer software.
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Postby thomas_w_bowman » Tue Sep 07, 2004 6:03 am

The Data is the fundamental reason that computing is interesting, otherwise all one would have is a calculator awaiting user input...

But the real trick to business applications is modifiability, perhaps for gaming
"Use C or C++ for business applications"
but for business applications to be able to survive decades of change would be best in COBOL - not because it is efficient (actually it is not very efficient), but because it can be constructed so as to be readable, and reasonably easily modified - with enough modularity to let the I/O be isolated (the I/O is perhaps the most machine and OS dependent part of COBOL coding).

Much of the Mainframe coding that I work with is about 30 years old, and has been modified constantly over that time...and still is being modified (I work with systems with huge customer databases - eg; Medicare and Medicaid [which apparently have yet to define purge criteria, BTW] and ever changing requirements due to leglislative reasons). I have seen attempts to migrate these to VB, PL1, and lately Java - but every time the maintenance becomes too confusing - and the system ends up back in COBOL.

Many excellent schools in the USA are not teaching COBOL, since there is a belief that it is a 'dinosaur' language and is going to become extinct - but note that where we are outsourcing our development to (India, for example), COBOL is taught with the several common environments for it (CICS for interactive programming, such as Web interfaces or Terminal input. And Batch for efficient multi-transaction processes (I've worked on Health Insurance systems that process over 250,000 claims a day on average - which move data back and forth from interactive to batch, with the objective being to have batch process as much as possible, because interactive needs people to 'work' it).
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Postby atang1 » Tue Sep 07, 2004 11:20 pm

Since Cobol has been modernized, is there more outstanding new improvements?

Can they(Cobol programmers) bring visual basic into Cobol or include XML in the data base that DB2 and Oracle can handle?

Nowadays, data is mixed, structured and unstructured.

I still remember Ken Fisher, then VP of Honeywell had large staff of Cobol programmers to support their mainframe customers in Lexington, Ma., forty years ago, before he founded Prime computers then Encore computers.
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Postby thomas_w_bowman » Wed Sep 08, 2004 7:37 am

Actually the interfaces that COBOL can use are evolving (but always continuing to support prior interfaces), for example CICS now supports Web interfaces, and data interfaces can always be developed / modified to work with whatever data manipulation is needed.

COBOL interfaces also include means to link to other executable, and Data is Data - define the spec and COBOL can do whatever's needed with it (strings, keywords, various delimiters, keyed data). This is not to say that other scripts are irrelevant, but rather that flexibility really revolves around Data requirements.

Systems I work on today include, for example, multiple vendors (eg; Pharmacies) using multiple platforms to work very high volume streams of very rapid turnaround of data (how long does it take a pharmacy to approve a Medicare Prescription ?). The core of the system is COBOL, and the interfaces are whatever they need to be to get the data back and forth from the Mainframe's databases (vendor, customer, prescribing entity, etc.).

Mainframe scripting that I see is largely REXX, I am not aware of Visual Basic Compilers for Mainframe (probably because rapid changes which require conversions and new Compilers would be very costly licenses for a Mainframe - so are likely run on some Mid-sized servers such as those IBM is building with their 'Power CPU's' capable of multi-OS support (except for Windows, apparently seen as to inefficient and unstable to be viable on high-volume transaction processing), including JAVA, Linux, and others.

Interfaces, as you pointed out earlier, always revolve around data. Script is useful only in what it does with that data, generally script is about the routing of data to an appropiate process - although I do appreciate that data can be modified and stored directly. Just as Microcode is likely to remain in Assembler, business applications requiring extreme volume, long service life and flexibility do tend to survive best in COBOL - which itself will likely be constantly modified.
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Postby atang1 » Wed Sep 08, 2004 8:46 am

While mainframe does not need graphics or sound, just the speed to process data; I am looking at the data with buried XML codes that DB2 and Oricle are including. Webpages certainly include many data compression standards.

So, distributed mainframe such as blade or zipcoded grid computers of a terabyte drams will use visualbasic same as cobol; midsize servers with loadbalancing operating system can be repositories, and operate in a grid environment.

Mainframe design is changing and so does operating system and languages and scripts. But filesystem will have to change first. Then search engine and download accelerators of segmented data, using packets will obsolete database and visual basic and cobol as such.

For instance a webpage of database can be a very large table of data, 3D(three dimensioanal) at that. Furture of software adapts to the internet.
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Postby thomas_w_bowman » Wed Sep 08, 2004 10:03 am

I spent the last few years modifying a few hundred COBOL programs to interface with DB2 - they were using VSAM and IMS before.

Packets will make for better organized storage, but as long as mass storage is needed it will be difficult to obsolete COBOL, I am confident that it will develop interfaces for whatever's needed, even as the operating systems are developing (even the largest mainframes might be using Linux today - although I doubt that they could serve as many users if using Windows...too much overhead). COBOL certainly supports DB2 and Oracle interfaces.

But the evolution will certainly continue. It is always best if it does so in a way that allows those interfacing in 'older' ways to continue to interface (eg; telephone interfaces for pharmacies - not modems, but the annoying multiple choice stuff "press 1 to ...", still supported by Mainframe COBOL with the proper firmware layers.

Firmware will evolve as standards become reliable enough to 'hard-wire', to support all manner of interfaces (it always comes down to the Data). :wink:
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Postby atang1 » Sat Sep 11, 2004 2:16 am

With packet storage, the header of the packets will switch all the hardware and software for the data in the package. I wonder howmany bits we need in the header. I proposed 20,000 bits, but looking at the universal packets and only 16 IRQs for hardware and 256 for osftware plus languages and scripts, my estimate may be in the order of magnitude. When you have to allow address switching of everything relevent to prefetch for instructions and data caching into the drams.

I am having fun but have not collected all the info to organize the header field lengths and proper sequence yet.
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Postby miki02131 » Sat Sep 11, 2004 7:26 pm

Guys, allow me to go off topic just for a few seconds. Suppose a young college kid decides to become a CS major, what are the FOUR must take computer Languages or Scripts that you would recommend as necessary to get a job in the computer field regardless of any particular industry?
Last edited by miki02131 on Sun Sep 12, 2004 4:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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