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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2004 1:12 pm 
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Pilgrim
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Rabidwerewolf wrote:
Hey docui and welcome to motherboards.org.

Man, I decide to take a nap after being up for nearly 48 straight hours and miss all the fun. :lol:

Well, I see that your budget is between $1300 and $1500, and I’m assuming that is US dollars and that you live in the US so here we go:


Heh, well actually I live in .ca but live near the border and have a mail box at a UPS store in NY. ;)

Thanks Rabid, really that's a great start, I'm going to compile the list and go from there.

Everyone else with their suggestions given my criteria are also duly thanked. =)

joshvee wrote:
Whew! ahh the motherboard only. OK that makes sense thanks for clearing that up and for not getting scared off by my untactful comments.

Agreed about the DDR2 (to a degree)

But there is one advantage of getting PCI-E and that is future proofing. You'll have it when the bandwidth is needed by newer cards in 6 months or so.


Yeah Joshvee, that's the only thing I'm thinking of, I would rather not have to replace the whole kit in 3 years. If I build with some fore thought now, (PCI-E slots if even no actual GPU for it at the moment) then that's great. And the same goes for the MOBOs that have DDR2 slots. Correct me if I'm wrong but are there not mobos out there now that support both? (can't remember)


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2004 10:43 pm 
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PCI-E ....

Hmm, so by getting a system with pci-e that cant use the total bandwidth of pci-e now or agp3.0 and the only delay comes from the system cpu and gpu not the bandwidth inbetween I still dont understand how pci-e is beneficial.

Now when the time for pci-e to actually take a foot hold on systems and be a need there will be most likely a new cpu socket that can handle those large foot prints of info.

All of us were enchanted by AMD in the last 7 years, they had the same socket type for 4 years (socket a, and we could keep the same mobo and update the cpu), then the 64bit (754) came and it wasnt a stellar chip but it then progressed to the 939 socket in less than 2 years from the 754 being a worthy chip cost/performance wise and trouncing intel once again.

So you are going to invest in the future on the design of an unneeded system bus?

A new socket is inevitable with a shiney new cpu to make everyone want it.

Just buy for today and what you need.
pc technology will keep moving forward.

Will AGP3.0 cards be made in three years.....
..... I am 99% sure they will but may fade out


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2004 10:57 pm 
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kltsin wrote:
All of us were enchanted by AMD in the last 7 years, they had the same socket type for 4 years (socket a, and we could keep the same mobo and update the cpu), then the 64bit (754) came and it wasnt a stellar chip but it then progressed to the 939 socket in less than 2 years from the 754 being a worthy chip cost/performance wise and trouncing intel once again.


Actually, socket754 hadn't been out a year when socket939 hit the market with feet running. Socket754 became available retail in the last quarter of 2003, and socket939 spring(second quarter) of this year. The reason AMD migrated to socket939 so quickly was that socket939 supports dual channel memory as the socketA did and there ability to manufacturer the 939pin system over the 754pin system as it has one less pin than the s940 opteron server based platform. Socket754 was sort of AMD's developmental test bed for the Athlon64 procs. Socket754 is a good, stable and fast system, but it only supported single channel. Socket939 will be around for a good 3 years if not as long as socketA. They have new cores and procs lined up for s939 for at least the next couple of years according to their road map for the future.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2004 12:58 am 
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Rabidwerewolf wrote:
kltsin wrote:
All of us were enchanted by AMD in the last 7 years, they had the same socket type for 4 years (socket a, and we could keep the same mobo and update the cpu), then the 64bit (754) came and it wasnt a stellar chip but it then progressed to the 939 socket in less than 2 years from the 754 being a worthy chip cost/performance wise and trouncing intel once again.


Actually, socket754 hadn't been out a year when socket939 hit the market with feet running. Socket754 became available retail in the last quarter of 2003, and socket939 spring(second quarter) of this year. The reason AMD migrated to socket939 so quickly was that socket939 supports dual channel memory as the socketA did and there ability to manufacturer the 939pin system over the 754pin system as it has one less pin than the s940 opteron server based platform. Socket754 was sort of AMD's developmental test bed for the Athlon64 procs. Socket754 is a good, stable and fast system, but it only supported single channel. Socket939 will be around for a good 3 years if not as long as socketA. They have new cores and procs lined up for s939 for at least the next couple of years according to their road map for the future.



True to some degree but not completely a sure thing.
If technology or competetion creates a move then there will be forward progress
AMD took a huge finacial hit by competeing and outdoing Intel.

Intel was smug and firmly planted until users saw the return when going to an amd system and lost a market share.

So here we are, AMD still rules in our minds and intel has guys in blue paint trying to sell their products.

The cpu market may stay this way, stagnant for the next 3 years which I beleive you are correct on.

If it becomes a war of superiority and public opinion and oems then the cpu market will run and be cheap.

I actually missed telling the whole point that intel changes socket type/packages for its cpus every 2 years , 6 to intel and 2 to amd since late 90's.

I still cant see a need for pci-e in a gpu, because of pci-e's design of up and down in/out put it may happen in 2 years, currently the design isnt made to use that technolgy.

If the game manufacturers could they would allienante 9/10ths of their clientele.

Even the latest hl2 respect older systems and simplier maek the game minutly less attrative when running the game in lower settings, but you really cant tell from a high end card to a low end card unless you really try to find fault.

There is no reason to spend $600 extra to see more detailed stuff than an oem user has with an okay card or to get X extra frames per second just because you want to be on top and think you have the best of the best.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2004 1:34 am 
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docui wrote:
And the same goes for the MOBOs that have DDR2 slots. Correct me if I'm wrong but are there not mobos out there now that support both? (can't remember)


You are wrong. There are. Some mobos on Intel's 915 chipset support both. However, if you buy a DDR2 board now, you won't be futureproof at all. Because when newer faster DDR2 chips come out, your motherboard won't support them anyway. Checkmate.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2004 1:39 am 
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kltsin wrote:



True to some degree but not completely a sure thing.
If technology or competetion creates a move then there will be forward progress
AMD took a huge finacial hit by competeing and outdoing Intel.

Intel was smug and firmly planted until users saw the return when going to an amd system and lost a market share.

So here we are, AMD still rules in our minds and intel has guys in blue paint trying to sell their products.

The cpu market may stay this way, stagnant for the next 3 years which I beleive you are correct on.

If it becomes a war of superiority and public opinion and oems then the cpu market will run and be cheap.

I actually missed telling the whole point that intel changes socket type/packages for its cpus every 2 years , 6 to intel and 2 to amd since late 90's.

I still cant see a need for pci-e in a gpu, because of pci-e's design of up and down in/out put it may happen in 2 years, currently the design isnt made to use that technolgy.

If the game manufacturers could they would allienante 9/10ths of their clientele.

Even the latest hl2 respect older systems and simplier maek the game minutly less attrative when running the game in lower settings, but you really cant tell from a high end card to a low end card unless you really try to find fault.

There is no reason to spend $600 extra to see more detailed stuff than an oem user has with an okay card or to get X extra frames per second just because you want to be on top and think you have the best of the best.


Hmmm I've heard this type of preaching before and I think your wrong.........little over a year ago ppl were saying there is no need for anything more than 64MB and a GF4 and wont be for many years. ppl felt 128MB was massive over kill.

As far as the 939 goes this socket type was released as the new socket to support the 64bit for the next 3 to 4 years or longer and was always planed that way. In fact the 754 was just a quick fix to get the 64 Bits on to the market till the 939 was perfected. The 939 was designed to meet the needs of future technology and faster chips for years to come and it's full potential has yet to be tapped.

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 Post subject: *wobble*
PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2004 7:25 am 
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Wow, okay.

So, based on the current discussions and so forth my options come down to a few questions. (Again I'm not sure about anything I say so just assume (not that hard) that I'm dense.

1) PCI-e is really not something to invest in yet as the current mobo designs won't really leverage the benefits of it at all yet.

2) DDR2 is bad mmmkay? Stick with DDR400? Get the olde 2x512 and be happy?

3) AMD is the way to go in terms of CPU as Intel i) produces more heat, ii) is more expensive, iii) is out performed by AMD on a per dollar spent basis?

Then if that's the case, given my $100-$200 desired cost, (for just the mobo folks. :P). What would be the suggestion in terms of motherboards?

Once I get the mobo decided on I can then look at cpu/cooling and power supplies. I think that will be second priority. Followed by GPU etc.

~The Doc.


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 Post subject: Re: *wobble*
PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2004 7:27 am 
docui wrote:
1) PCI-e is really not something to invest in yet as the current mobo designs won't really leverage the benefits of it at all yet.


Im not convinced by that. Its more like the GPUs are not fast enough to make use of it.


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 Post subject: Re: *wobble*
PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2004 7:30 am 
docui wrote:
2) DDR2 is bad mmmkay? Stick with DDR400? Get the olde 2x512 and be happy?


Until they can reduce the CL to a sensible level then yes, but this shouldnt be too long in coming. So immediate term I would forget DDR2 but mid to long term, Im not sure.


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 Post subject: Re: *wobble*
PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2004 7:31 am 
docui wrote:
3) AMD is the way to go in terms of CPU as Intel i) produces more heat, ii) is more expensive, iii) is out performed by AMD on a per dollar spent basis?


At the moment yes.


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