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Ok, but...

Postby tech_guy » Thu Feb 06, 2003 5:55 pm

Valour wrote:...Stay away from AMD dual CPU systems for now -- they don't give you the performance that you'll need.


...For video editing, I'd get either an nForce2-based motherboard or a SiS 648 or Intel 845GE-based motherboard. Most of your work is going to be done with memory bandwidth and graphics processing, and these three chipsets do both of those things very well.

-Jem


So what is a good use for a dual AMD system? I was considering building a dual AMD box for video editing (rendering). I want something with a little more power than a single proc system to do the rendering on my projects.

Also, on a side note, I have been reading that the VIA chipset is full of bugs. What is your opinion on this subject? I am using a VIA KT400 chipset mobo and haven't noticed anything yet, but I want to be prepared if there is a major bug in the chipset.

-Tech
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Postby chulo_d » Thu Feb 06, 2003 9:39 pm

Outstanding post Valour.
If it aint broke, fix it till it is
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Postby Valour » Thu Feb 06, 2003 10:14 pm

Right now the only dual AMD XP MP motherboards out there are very old and very slow compared to Xeon-based boards. They aren't good for much, really. I am assuming that the new Barton core will bring with it some new multi-processor offerings, but don't quote me on that... it's also likely that AMD will be exiting the server market due to lack of support. Server products are Intel's favorite products, and their most robust and innovative technology goes toward that market.

VIA hasn't had anything really good for quite a while now. In my testing of the KT400 I've found that it doesn't perform any better than the KT333 chipset and DDR400 support is a joke. There don't seem to be any problems with VIA chipsets that I know of, but they aren't much competition for Nvidia's nForce2 chipset.

The great thing about the nForce2 is its incredible video performance -- of course, it's made by a company whose primary business is graphics chipsets. Even though the nForce2 boards get very low memory bandwidth scores compared to Intel chipsets, their 3DMark scores are just as good as the 845GE and E7205 boards. That means that an nForce2 board is good for gaming and not much else (when compared to a similar Intel-based board). Likewise the new E7205 "Granite Bay" boards get incredible memory bandwidth scores but their 3DMark scores are no higher than any other modern motherboard, meaning that they are great for business uses and any CPU and memory intensive applications but a poor choice for gaming.

Now of course you can buy an nForce2 board and still do things other than play games, but you might be happier with a board that is made for your primary computing needs. Same with the Granite Bay boards -- why spend all that money on a board to play games when it isn't going to perform any better than a lower-priced 845GE, 845PE, or SiS648 board? On the other hand if you're looking to build a server for a twenty node network and can't afford a Xeon system, the P4G8X would be a godsend because of its high memory bandwidth and RAM capacity.

-Jem
"The proverb says that Providence protects children and idiots. This is really true. I know because I have tested it." -Mark Twain

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Postby orion9727 » Sun Mar 02, 2003 4:52 pm

very well writen valour,you did your homework here,too many people are on this 306HT kick,a lot of money when they a fine machine as is.and with the next gen cpu right around the corner they be out in the cold again,remember what intel is like on core changes-that pin changes too!
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Postby CptRobbyFC » Sat Mar 08, 2003 2:35 pm

Valour wrote:Likewise the new E7205 "Granite Bay" boards get incredible memory bandwidth scores but their 3DMark scores are no higher than any other modern motherboard, meaning that they are great for business uses and any CPU and memory intensive applications but a poor choice for gaming.


What if you are planning on getting a high end AGP card to go with it (like an nVidia GF FX)? As I figure, it no longer matters what kind of 3DMark scores you'd get off the MB itself, since you have a graphics card to handle that. Plus you're getting better performance from the memory than you would with the 845PE/GE MBs. So you would end up with the best of both worlds, right?

Thanks alot,
Robby :)
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Postby Valour » Sat Mar 08, 2003 3:10 pm

CptRobbyFC wrote:
Valour wrote:Likewise the new E7205 "Granite Bay" boards get incredible memory bandwidth scores but their 3DMark scores are no higher than any other modern motherboard, meaning that they are great for business uses and any CPU and memory intensive applications but a poor choice for gaming.


What if you are planning on getting a high end AGP card to go with it (like an nVidia GF FX)? As I figure, it no longer matters what kind of 3DMark scores you'd get off the MB itself, since you have a graphics card to handle that. Plus you're getting better performance from the memory than you would with the 845PE/GE MBs. So you would end up with the best of both worlds, right?

Thanks alot,
Robby :)


High-end ATI cards have lockup issues with the E7205 chipset, so you'd have to use an Nvidia card. That's not a problem, but the thing is why would you spend $250 on a motherboard that isn't going to give you better game performance than one half that price? If you've got a $350 video card already, that's 50% of your game performance right there -- the other 50% being your CPU speed and memory bandwidth, which go hand-in-hand.

Let's imagine that there's a store a mile from your house. There is a 90mph speed limit on the road to the store -- so you can get there pretty quickly. So you get what you need and come back, but the road on the way back has a 45mph speed limit. The road on the way to the store is the CPU speed and the road back is the memory bandwidth. So increasing your CPU speed doesn't get you much -- it gets you to the store faster but it doesn't get you back any quicker.

Some chipsets are just good for gaming... the nForce2 gets exceptional 3D performance. The 845GE seems to do slightly better than the 845PE. And the SiS648 with DDR400 is phenomenal. Going back to our analogy, the efficiency of the chipset is like the length and complexity of the road to the store. Ideally the RAM would be integrated into the CPU; this is sort of what cache memory is, but there isn't nearly enough of it to take the place of RAM. So the better the chipset, the faster you can get to the store. Put the same CPU and RAM into a KT400-based board and an nForce2-based board and you'll see how much of a difference a chipset can make. The E7205 chipset may get great memory bandwidth, but the chipset just isn't anything far and above its predecessors. It's just a little bt better, but it costs a lot more. That makes it a poor value, and value is one of the major deciding factors in designing a game system.

-Jem
"The proverb says that Providence protects children and idiots. This is really true. I know because I have tested it." -Mark Twain

I wrote this book: www.herotale.com
And here's the next one: www.emeraldblackbird.com
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pls help me here

Postby MBnoob » Sun Mar 16, 2003 5:24 am

pls help me at my post to choose a solution regarding upgrading motherboard and cpu

http://www.motherboards.org/forums/view ... hp?t=20314
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Postby Paradoxx » Fri Mar 21, 2003 3:09 am

Excellent post Valour, I also printed a copy of it as a reference. I think I am now educated enough to write my own question post. Thanks :)
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Dual AMD Motherboard

Postby jansen00 » Thu Apr 10, 2003 1:24 pm

I have question about DUAL AMD MP Vs Dual Intel Xeon processor. is Gigabyte motherboard GA-7DPXDW+ is also including too old mobo for Dual AMD MP ?
and is dual Xeon can beat dual AMP MP in performance ?

Thanks,
Jan
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Re: Dual AMD Motherboard

Postby Valour » Thu Apr 10, 2003 1:36 pm

jansen00 wrote:I have question about DUAL AMD MP Vs Dual Intel Xeon processor. is Gigabyte motherboard GA-7DPXDW+ is also including too old mobo for Dual AMD MP ?
and is dual Xeon can beat dual AMP MP in performance ?

Thanks,
Jan


That looks like a pretty good board, but it's still old technology. AMD's next server solution is the Clawhammer, which is shrouded in mystery and has a questionable release date. If all goes well, it should be an outstanding CPU for high-end computing. But if you need a server or high-end workstation right now, the best bet is a dual 533FSB Xeon, which is Hyper-Threaded and will act as four CPUs. The motherboard you'd want is based on either the E7501 (server) or E7505 (workstation) Intel chipsets. Supermicro and Intel are two excellent brands for high-end motherboards, followed by Tyan and Iwill. If you need serious computing power, Xeon is really the only way to go right now...

-Jem
"The proverb says that Providence protects children and idiots. This is really true. I know because I have tested it." -Mark Twain

I wrote this book: www.herotale.com
And here's the next one: www.emeraldblackbird.com
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