Right drives for BIG raid6....

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Right drives for BIG raid6....

Postby bdub » Fri Jan 16, 2015 11:33 am

...got an areca 1883lp to run a sans digital external drive enclosure (16 bay) with either 16 2TB or 9 4TB (still haven't decided which way to go) drives. we are trying to decide if it is cost effective to run less of the bigger drives (hence giving customer expandability in future), and cost is a big factor in whether we do this...

run a lot of raids typical to this design and always stuck with 2TB drives or smaller due to possible incompatibilities with older enclosures and raid cards. this new raid card and enclosure definitely can handle anything we throw at it.

my question is... I notice the wd "red" NAS drives are quite inexpensive compared to WD enterprise blue, black, etc drives. AND they seem to be "raid ready", or at least NAS ready... does NAS ready include the kind of system I am building? the single cable running from the computer to the enclosure is a run of the mill SAS cable... I'm not sure if "NAS" drives works better with network protocols or what. does anyone have advice on this?

TIA!

these are the "NAS" drives I had in mind...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6822236599

here's the drives we normally use...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6822236520

but then I see wd has these "red pro" at the same price as the ones we normally use.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6822236739

in the end, we found these hitachi ultrastar's for 222, and I think I'm going that way...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6822145876
my main rig...
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crucial ballistix 2x4gb sport ddr3-1333
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antec neo he 650r
Samsung 840 EVo SSD 120 GB
toshiba 2TB HDD 64M cache sata3
seagate 1TB HDD 64M cache sata3
hitachi 2TB HDD 64M cache sata3
lg wh14ns40 bd burner
optiarc ad-7240s sata dvdrw (nec chipset)
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Re: Right drives for BIG raid6....

Postby Karlsweldt » Fri Jan 16, 2015 6:25 pm

To each his own,as to hard drive brands. Seagate has some great drives too. like this Enterprise model at New Egg..
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... -_-Product
I would choose fewer "larger" drives over several "smaller" drives. Reason being for higher current needs and waste heat to dissipate. Go with the longest warranty model.
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Re: Right drives for BIG raid6....

Postby Mr T » Sat Jan 17, 2015 9:07 am

I am with Karl on choosing big drives over small. Less drives is always better esp when fault finding... I am quite impressed with the Hitachis, they run very cool, esp when running under pressure. The WD RED or Enterprise black are very similar, just check all the warranties. They seem to be around the 5 year mark which is good.

Check this out it is a good indicator of what is good in comparison of speed and power saving, which some companies are quite up on esp if there is power saving on drive usage.

Another comparison/review.

Have you looked at 6 or 8Tb drives?
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Re: Right drives for BIG raid6....

Postby evasive » Sun Jan 18, 2015 10:57 pm

The only plus from using more smaller drives is total data throughput as this is still "spinning rust", not flash.

But, if you are not using this thing at full bandwidth all of the time, go for the less drives/larger disks solution.
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Re: Right drives for BIG raid6....

Postby bdub » Tue Jan 20, 2015 9:26 am

yes, I am trying to get them to go for the larger drives (it does turn out to be cost effective to get 9 4TB over 16 2TB. because it's raid6, you need the 9th drive to keep the resulting volume group the same size)... but the client always thinks we are trying to screw them by changing what was in sales people's proposals.
hopefully they come back with the correct answer, which is the bigger drives are fine by them... it actually gives them room for expanding in the future, as all the bays in this box will not be used, and the raid card gives them flexibility to either add to existing raid or make new on with new drives. it's a win for them, totally.

anyhow, we are either going with the hitachi's I linked or the WD enterprise (it's a black label, but with a light blue stripe at the bottom) which are slightly cheaper from ASI or else someone other than newegg. this one... http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6822236520

I figure bandwidth after 4 or 5 drives can't get any better with even more mechanicals... and it's not really a super bandwidth intensive job these will do... I mean 200-300 MB/s is certainly enough to push hi-def video, right? this box should do even better than that. and it's mostly for storage of old stuff, although they will edit with avid on it too... but mostly forensics analysis, not movies or tv shows.

we pretty much completely changed from lsi cards to areca. lsi had a bad model (9280-8e), which tended to overheat (no fan), and I still notice a lot of lsi cards have no fan! guess they are built for boxes with more airflow than we provide. areca always has a fan, and they seem very rock solid.
my main rig...
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zalman cpns5x performa hs/fan
crucial ballistix 2x4gb sport ddr3-1333
powercolor ax7750 1GBK3-H vga
antec neo he 650r
Samsung 840 EVo SSD 120 GB
toshiba 2TB HDD 64M cache sata3
seagate 1TB HDD 64M cache sata3
hitachi 2TB HDD 64M cache sata3
lg wh14ns40 bd burner
optiarc ad-7240s sata dvdrw (nec chipset)
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Re: Right drives for BIG raid6....

Postby bdub » Tue Jan 20, 2015 1:27 pm

Mr T wrote:Have you looked at 6 or 8Tb drives?


they aren't the sweet spot yet, I think. it looks to me as 4 TB drives are the best size/dollar going right now. so no, we haven't. am I wrong?
my main rig...
asrock 970 extreme3
AMD FX-6300 Vishera CPU
zalman cpns5x performa hs/fan
crucial ballistix 2x4gb sport ddr3-1333
powercolor ax7750 1GBK3-H vga
antec neo he 650r
Samsung 840 EVo SSD 120 GB
toshiba 2TB HDD 64M cache sata3
seagate 1TB HDD 64M cache sata3
hitachi 2TB HDD 64M cache sata3
lg wh14ns40 bd burner
optiarc ad-7240s sata dvdrw (nec chipset)
bdub
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Re: Right drives for BIG raid6....

Postby bdub » Fri Jan 23, 2015 10:53 am

here's the stats crystaldisk puts out on this configuration. we ended up getting those hitachi drives...

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
CrystalDiskMark 3.0.2 x64 (C) 2007-2013 hiyohiyo
Crystal Dew World : http://crystalmark.info/
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
* MB/s = 1,000,000 byte/s [SATA/300 = 300,000,000 byte/s]

Sequential Read : 2098.201 MB/s
Sequential Write : 1069.040 MB/s
Random Read 512KB : 1966.953 MB/s
Random Write 512KB : 250.116 MB/s
Random Read 4KB (QD=1) : 166.266 MB/s [ 40592.2 IOPS]
Random Write 4KB (QD=1) : 4.735 MB/s [ 1156.0 IOPS]
Random Read 4KB (QD=32) : 4.313 MB/s [ 1052.9 IOPS]
Random Write 4KB (QD=32) : 3.496 MB/s [ 853.6 IOPS]

Test : 1000 MB [E: 0.0% (0.5/26076.9 GB)] (x5)
Date : 2015/01/23 13:49:02
OS : Windows 7 Professional SP1 [6.1 Build 7601] (x64)


this is on a tyan s7025 mobo. no pci-e rev3 slots, only rev2... but the areca card was in an electrical "8X" slot.
drive is 28TB with raid6 redundancy. formatted, it show up in windows as 26,077 Gigs.

I'd say the reads will do 4k def, don't you guys?
my main rig...
asrock 970 extreme3
AMD FX-6300 Vishera CPU
zalman cpns5x performa hs/fan
crucial ballistix 2x4gb sport ddr3-1333
powercolor ax7750 1GBK3-H vga
antec neo he 650r
Samsung 840 EVo SSD 120 GB
toshiba 2TB HDD 64M cache sata3
seagate 1TB HDD 64M cache sata3
hitachi 2TB HDD 64M cache sata3
lg wh14ns40 bd burner
optiarc ad-7240s sata dvdrw (nec chipset)
bdub
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Re: Right drives for BIG raid6....

Postby Karlsweldt » Fri Jan 23, 2015 4:19 pm

As long as no "idle" programs are lurking in the background, surely 4K will be had.
Are you going to have an auto-rebuild feature active?
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Re: Right drives for BIG raid6....

Postby evasive » Sat Jan 24, 2015 2:48 am

Ssssssshhh, you cannot call those Hitachi anymore, they want to be referred to as HGST... But you got the right stuff I think, seeing their consumer gradedisks already doing well in here:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/01/23 ... fail_most/
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Re: Right drives for BIG raid6....

Postby bdub » Mon Jan 26, 2015 8:13 am

Karlsweldt wrote:As long as no "idle" programs are lurking in the background, surely 4K will be had.
Are you going to have an auto-rebuild feature active?



yeah, we got an extra disk, and I put it in an empty bay. set it up to be a "hot-spare". it's designated to the only raid set in the system, and I believe it will auto rebuild, but at worst if there was degradation in the raid, the alarmn would go off and somebody would have to make the rebuild start.
I'm thinking about testing it by pulling out a drive, but I'm not sure how much time I have till I have to ship... if I do get to test, i'll post back here.

raid ran 12 streams in avid looping all weekend with no issues at all. I'm sure I could have simultaneously ran many more streams of uncompressed sd video, but avid has a 12 stream limit built into it for some reason... for preview purposes. but lets just say it checks out to all the testing I usually do.
my main rig...
asrock 970 extreme3
AMD FX-6300 Vishera CPU
zalman cpns5x performa hs/fan
crucial ballistix 2x4gb sport ddr3-1333
powercolor ax7750 1GBK3-H vga
antec neo he 650r
Samsung 840 EVo SSD 120 GB
toshiba 2TB HDD 64M cache sata3
seagate 1TB HDD 64M cache sata3
hitachi 2TB HDD 64M cache sata3
lg wh14ns40 bd burner
optiarc ad-7240s sata dvdrw (nec chipset)
bdub
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