After the case -- reading recommends

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Postby evasive » Sun Apr 07, 2013 11:40 pm

Smartphones, tablets, economic crises, in that order.

Many people buy a tablet or smartphone because it does what they used their desktop for (emailing, browsing the internet, make a simple letter).
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System error, strike any user to continue...
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Re: Question(s) for bdub

Postby bdub » Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:32 am

mooresmsr wrote:1. choosing Gig over Asus?

2. You recommended Mushkin memory.

3. Video card

1 - yes asus has lost some traction recently, plus i never really liked them as a builder (and i've built more than a few). i have personal experience with gigabyte on socket 2011, as well.
2 - mushkin is a highly respected company, just as crucial... you could easily switch the two if you feel the need. these sticks stood out to meas i was looking down neweggs list of rams... also i have personal experience with mushkin on socket 2011.
3 - the radeon series is kicking butt as far as bang-for-the buck, and straight out head to heads. some people complain about drivers with radeons... never had that problem myself. i guess this one could be personal preference as well.
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Re: Question(s) for bdub

Postby c327 » Thu Apr 11, 2013 11:50 pm

mooresmsr wrote:bdub,

you listed some hardware recommends, and I have a couple of preliminary questions, before I start in-depth looking.

1. My last build (yes, it was a long time ago) used an Asus motherboard, and while it went downlevel quickly, I really haven't had any complaint with it. I see a lot of articles about Gigabyte, and not so many about Asus. What's the current feeling (or at least yours) on choosing Gig over Asus?

2. You recommended Mushkin memory. I thought Crucial was the gold standard. Is Mushkin better today, or was that a price decision, or has memory become a commodity?

3. Video card -- same as number 1 -- I used an Nvidia board for a long time (till the fan gave out, and I found out that nobody sells AGP stuff anymore- well, almost nobody). I was happy with the Nvidia. The little looking I did do makes me think the motherboard manufacturers have taken the technology and tweaked it for their own use and name -- hence the Radeon board with Gigabyte name. It looks like Asus does the same thing, but with Nvidia. Is there a noticeable difference for semi-vanilla users like me, or is Radeon technology the go-to group today?

Still waiting for Amazon to deliver the Mueller book, but looking forward to it.

Thanks for the forum info, evasive. Any great reason there isn't tons of activity here right now? I remember in 2003, I'd make a post and check back in a day or two, and it would have been shoved down to page 2, 3, or 4.


Yes it has been a little quiet here as compared to the recent past. Some folks have gone on to college and the military. Some have probably started using other non computer related websites to communicate on.

This is still the best place to come for assistance related to computers IMO. On top of getting excellent technical assistance here you don't need to ware hip boots when visiting.

Intel mobo's in my opinion are known to be solid and stable and may cost a little more than others (I use them) with the same features but it seems they may not have some of the features some folks look for. Intel I think is getting out of the desktop mobo business.

With you budget it seems that you have plenty of room for building and probably with some left over if you don't go to crazy with things you may not need.

Can't go wrong with quality hardware and a happy marriage of them but unfortunately some folks aren't in that position and that is where they run into problems with the build.

To be honest it seems that manufacturing costs and the competition between them and other manufactures is so competitive not to mention merging between some of them that it breeds creativity and It makes it very difficult in my opinion to decide just who or what is best today regarding just about anything made :roll:

I don't think anything beats a desktop PC when it come to a power user requirements. If not a power user and I still had a desktop that performed well even though old, I think I would stay with it and go with a new quality laptop for portability and it wouldn't be anything from Dell or the like. Something decent probably would be in the $2000 to $2500 range.

Smart phones, laptops, tablets, desktops ?????????? Just too many things to consider
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New PC update

Postby mooresmsr » Sat Apr 20, 2013 2:44 pm

I got Scott Mueller's book, and started reading, expecting a long, involved chore. Much to my surprise, lots of this stuff is simply PC versions of Big Iron mainframe stuff I did in 1980-1985. Today there is better technology, but the terms and concepts are amazingly the same. That said, I now have a few questions that might make more sense.

1. What has the experiential difference been between sandy and ivy bridge? bdub recommened a 6 core sandy bridge i7. I don't know if I need a 7, a 5 might be just as good for what I do, but I'm interested in what people actually SEE as differences between sandy and ivy.

2. What chipset should I be looking for in a mb? Mueller's book has tables for both bridges. If I go with an i5 processor, (1155 socket, I think), what will make the I/O work the best (fastest)? The propaganda on newegg seems to indicate the Z77 chipset, but again, is that overkill?

3. Based on my reading, my current hard drives should at least be connectable and powerable, which solves one of my big concerns, data transfer from the old to the new. The old drives have the 40-wire ribbon connectors (ATA, I think?). One is 500GB, with my daily data on it, the other is 120GB system drive, which doesn't have much more than OS stuff and a small amount of my- things (documents, pictures, etc.). Am I correct that I will at least be able to power up the old drives and copy to new ones?

4. Much is made of the video support in the i-series chips from Intel. Sounds to me like they drive something like a mid-range video feed. I may or may not jump on something like Far Cry whatever-the-number-is-this-week, or BioShock, but would the non-video board CPU/chip video be enough to get me going for a few months until I have a better understanding of the box?

5. Other posts I've read about SSDs say to go bigger. My current "system" HD is, as I said, only 120 GB, and a bunch of that is free space. I don't plan on going to Windows 8 anytime soon, so is a 240 or 250 GB SSD enough?

6. Mueller says there is a break-point on RAM, that you can get too much. bdub recommended 16GB. In the real world, is this an efficient amount, or should I just get the 32 and be done with it?

7. Still torn between the full and mid tower. I was concerned with expansion capabilities, but it looks to me like there is so much built into the mb world today, there isn't much you need to expand to - the video board being one, but what else would I need expansion for?

Guess that's enough for now.

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Postby Mr T » Sat Apr 20, 2013 11:57 pm

1)Top google result which explains very well ivy and sandy bridge differences. In the real computing world, you won't see much unless you are doing high end stuff (CAD,3D modelling and the like).

2) go for what you can afford and use. Remember AMD is up there and is cheaper than Intel and just as good for most real world stuff. Forget the 'future proof' concept with RAM, motherboard and CPU - it will change dramatically in 5 years rendering old stuff non upgradable but still useful. If you want future proofing, buy a high quality branded power supply, case and hard drive. Video cards are also in the category of changing quickly, but it depends on your taste in gaming. I stopped playing a lot of new games on the PC due to expensive video card demands and invested in an XBOX and XBOX360.

3)If your drives are IDE (pins and the ribbon cable) you will need a SATA to IDE connector which will slow your whole system down. Get a USB caddy and use that. SATA now is the norm on new boards, there are very few boards that still have an IDE connector. But if you use an IDE to USB caddy you will be able to get DATA off the old drives, but not programs.

4) To get a decent quality of new gaming, always go with a separate video card. The integrated video on CPU's is good, but not so much for 3D gaming.

5)SSD's are still expensive compared to the moving parts drive. I have both, using the SSD as the operating system drive. Boot performance is marginally better, but storage quickly runs out for me. Windows can easily swallow 40Gb on a SSD before the swap space and I quickly ran out of space.

6)You can never have too much RAM. Get what you can afford. A 32bit operating system will only see a maximum of 3.5Gb and less. A 64bit operating system will see a lot more. I have 32Gb on my system because I can afford it and it runs pretty well. On my other systems it ranges from 2Gb (old DDR1) to 16Gb and all run well.

7) I would always get a case you can add at least 3 hard drives to with room for airflow and a front fan (or front fan port). Again get what you can afford and will use.
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memory speed recommend

Postby mooresmsr » Tue May 14, 2013 11:22 am

So now that I've done a bunch of reading and searching, I've settled on a few of my new PC components. I'm going with Intel 3570K i5, probably Asus P8Z77-I Deluxe mb. My question is about memory. I spent some time in Scott Mueller's book trying to find if there was something you had to match up to when buying memory, but can't find anything specific about what model/speed I should get. The newegg specs for the mb list 7 types i can get. Are all of them compatible with the mb/processor combo? The "pick memory" app on the Crucial site says DDR3-1333, so what's with the 6 other options on the newegg spec list? I'm confused. Help!

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Postby Roach412 » Tue May 14, 2013 1:52 pm

you want ddr3 - that's all you really need to care about to be honest.

all the other options are speed ratings, higher clocks(or lower) than that 1333 number you see. the higher the number the "faster" you can push the system...but, depending on the cpu/board/etc you're going to run into a limit of your overclock.

unless you know what you're doing, and want to get into overclocking - it's not really important. find the amount of memory you want, and start looking at prices and compatibility. once you find compatible memory at the price you want - just check for similarly priced higher-rated modules of it. that's typically my approach. right now memory is pretty cheap, and it's not much price difference between higher speed ratings. generally speaking, the higher-rated memory is made out of higher-quality materials (and go through higher testing requirements) so i probably overstep my "needs" by 1 or 2 tiers of speeds.

the way newegg has them listed - you can get 1333 or 1600 without overclocking. anything above those speeds will be an overclock:
1800, 1866, 2000, 2133, 2200, 2400.

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