Apple G5

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Postby barmouth » Wed Jul 30, 2003 6:33 pm

You selling Apple Corp short over 20 years Plekto? Brave man!
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Postby Plekto » Wed Jul 30, 2003 8:04 pm

Well, the Macintosh was introduced in 1984, 19 1/2 years ago. So, the war has really been going on for basically twenty years. Wow I feel old. Lol.

Secondly, I like to poit it out when I get a chance to people because it proves that they WILL be around for another decade or more - since they managed to get two under their belt already and are doing as well as they ever have.

Face it - they will always be a factor in home computing - as much as the P.C. fanatics go on and on about their pending demise.
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Postby miki02131 » Fri Aug 01, 2003 10:56 am

Plekto wrote:....Face it - they will always be a factor in home computing - as much as the P.C. fanatics go on and on about their pending demise.


You need to ask yourself whether or not the Apple market is growing, shrinking, or stagnant. If it is not growing then sooner or later they will be obsolete as Apple users are slowly dying off. Understand that I am not an Apple hater or anything like this, but this is just a simple market logic.
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Postby Plekto » Fri Aug 01, 2003 2:05 pm

Businesses grow and shrink, just like most everything in nature. Take JBL. They have never been huge. In fact, they started as a professional speaker maker, much like Genelec is now, and branched into home audio back in the late 70s and early 80s. They basically had a zero growth business, but that was fine as they were also incredibly stable at the same time thanks to things like owning more than half of the business in movie theatre sound systems(still true today).

They had tough times in the 90s, but merged with Harmon International and now are fdoinf better than ever.

Take H.P. same deal - solid company about the same size as Apple. Home PCs were never their forte, but they kicked butt in the server market. They came upon hard times and now have undergone a merger. Everyone is happy and the products got better.

Even Chrysler survived. Of the home computer companies of old, only a few actually truly died. Even Atari is still around in coin-op video games.

Apple was the biggest home computer maker back in the 8-bit days. Then made the Macintosh. And so it was - until they were shrinking and having problems. Then they reworked their image, prices, and products, and have been doing a stellar job the last 4-5 years. Their move to UNIX years ahead of the PCs, which are in a faustian arrangement with Microsoft, was genius. They almost imploded due to flaky software, but it seems to be like their move to the power PC OSes - skahy at first, but they have a new lease on life that this time is what they should have done a decade ago.

In the long term, they are no different than H.P. or any other large company. If their management doesn't stuff up completely, they will be around forever.

As for a possible merger, I could see them merging with Motorolla or SGI or maybe SUN(most likely) in a decade or so. They are definately not going away anytime soon.
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Postby miki02131 » Fri Aug 01, 2003 3:36 pm

Plekto, do you see Apple as gaining back market share from PCs in the future? Or do you think their come back will be engineered through new technologies?

To me, I think it's impossible for apple to make any headway in the PC market. I hope them the best because when I was in University they were the first computers I've ever used. Back then they were leading the computer market, but somewhere for some reason somebody gave it all up. I think they will never come back through the early years no matter what. They will survive through the faithfuls until they all die or they will survive through innovation and new technologies.
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Postby Plekto » Fri Aug 01, 2003 11:45 pm

Well, remember - they don't HAVE to beat the PC crowd to survive, anymore than SGI needs to or Nintendo needs to beat Sony. There's a large enough market for both of them to survive side by side. That's one of the fallacies of the "hundred years war" mentality - that they are at war with each other. In reality, they are fairly happy neighbors. One is the ex-hippie with the minivan and the other is the construction worker with the 4x4.

As for innovation, that is where it is at. They live or die not by competing versus any other company, but whether thay can hold their own and carve out a nice for themselves. Look at Blenko glass. They are still around after like over a hundred years and still make the best U.S. glass products. Their market is pretty stable and they're not dying anytime soon.

Apple is simmilar in computer terms. Tandy, Ti, Atari, Commodore(sold more C-64s btw, than any single model of computer to date, btw - far outstripping Apple's 8-bit machines - yet died. Amstrad, HeathKit, and a slew of others - all dead. They survived, though barely. Even IBM stopped making PCs and went over to laptops it was such a rough time in the 90s.

Apple almost died, but was brought back by Jobs and a new vision. They are on a new wave right now and that should last a good 5 more years or so. Innovation will likely come with a pariing with a company like Sun or something or by what they are doing right now - making the core of the OS UNIX. That's huge and right there gives them a 5-10 year lifespan. What they do after that is anyone's guess. That they are branching out into MP3 players and computer appliances and such is good as well.
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Postby jtcartboy » Sat Aug 02, 2003 11:16 pm

also the 64bit architecture isn't even being taken advantage of yet. And mac said that Jaguar or whatever they new OS is called won't be going 64bit until next year. SO we aren't even seeing it in 64bit mode yet. SO yet another Mac Fallacy
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Postby Plekto » Sun Aug 03, 2003 2:59 am

I see for some reason you just feel a need to bash Apple despite their forward-looking strategy. What happens when 64 and higher true multithreading processors are comonplace and Intel is going "what the hell just happened to our market?"

Next year is 6 months away. Apple traditionally releases things about mid Janurary, and then - watch those test numbers scream.

Considering that in five years everything will be using a UNIX core, OS will be more of a look and feel sort of thing, much like how web browsers are.

And through all of this, Apple will still be chugging along with its small slice of the pie.
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Postby jtcartboy » Sun Aug 03, 2003 5:45 am

hey buddy next year as in next june or july the release date isn't scheduled next. Oh yeah and AMD already is running 64bit on linux, and hollywood is looking into them very closely simply because macs don't cut it anymore. A guy I know works for EA games and also worked for paramount and he said they had already stopped using macs and are using PCs and Silicon Graphics machines (the later which have been on the market for a very long time). Rumor has it a 64but linux version of a lot of the adobe products will be hitting the market soon too. WHy aren't the G5s chosen for "Red Storm" or that new supercomputer being built in CHina. I mean if they are the best chip and all??? I use a mac at school for my graphic design class and video prod and I hate the thing. I am running dual G4 1.33Ghz with 2MB ram and it is still slower than my athlon xp 2500+ with 1 GB of ram. My rendering times slaughter the apple's. You are talking to a guy who has used macs for a very very long time, and I still am not impressed. Well just remember all you mac lovers can thank bill gates for your comapny still being in business.
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Postby miki02131 » Sun Aug 03, 2003 2:23 pm

I used to work for a government agency and for some reason the government decides to retire all macs and move everybody onto PC. Further reason why I believe Apple's market share is shrinking little by little. Believe me when a company get dumped by the US government, it is big setback to your sale and revenue.

Having said that I do want Apple to survive because I believe competition is the driving force behind innovation and new technologies. I am still wondering where would PCs be without MACs. We do need the competition between MAC and PCs at leat for competition sake.
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