Did It Happen This Way?

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Postby Tulatin » Wed Jul 02, 2003 4:59 pm

VERY interesting point satin. Basically, it's not your enemies that will be your end but rather a flaw in how you act, what you do, how you go about it.

1-3 guys now a day are dieing in the gulf.
we won what war.
sound like an other vietnam in the gulf to me.
and we all be sucked in.
they day after 9\11 we should ran the white flag up the pole or bombed them all back to the stone age.
any else is pointless.
we never be out now.
if you ask me it was no different than the first gulf.
bush learned nothing from his father.

Another vietnam in the gulf? Not quite the same scale but the comparison is valid. In truth though, like you said, what war was won if to "maintain peace" people die daily. Bush really didn't read his father exploits of failures and look what happens... history repeats itself...
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Postby satan » Wed Jul 02, 2003 6:50 pm

Tulatin wrote:VERY interesting point satin. Basically, it's not your enemies that will be your end but rather a flaw in how you act, what you do, how you go about it.

[Another vietnam in the gulf? Not quite the same scale but the comparison is valid. In truth though, like you said, what war was won if to "maintain peace" people die daily. Bush really didn't read his father exploits of failures and look what happens... history repeats itself...


in ww1 more men died from the flu then in combat.
your enemy may often be yourself.
its not quiet veitnam yet,wait.
many mistakes are made on the battlefeild.such is the fog of war.
what dose war serve,it serves itself.
how will you act,get out.
you cant win now ,how can you.
where will the decive battles be,nowhere.
what is to be gained,nothing.
this is what happed before.
peace keeping missions all over again.
we are geting sucked into a fight where there are no goals.
nothing to gain,everthing to loose.
we dont learn very well do we.
france went into spain and never won ,why.
they had defeated the greatest armys in europe.
no disisive battles ,you cant win a war if the enemy wont fight on your terms.
where that happen before.
we act like we are the war gods of the planet,hmmm where that happen before.
these guys aint stuid they wont get sucked into a major battle.
why should we get suck in to a little one.
what the point.
we have too much open space at arlington.
we cant win this one ,no way,not even close.
we need to get out now.
everone was all for veit nam,in the begining.
wait till the body count goas up to 10 a day.
there all be in the streets again,the poor guys that have to due the work will get the same treatment they got before,and for what.
want to get them,fight on our terms.
stay here and bomb them back into the stone age till there own people turns on them.
you be surprised how well that works when they have no food,water and medicene.
scorched earth people ,only way to win.
some body get shermans DNA,see what he do and how long they fight then.
id give them 3 weeks and there be white flags everwhere.
this is just the tip of the iceburg.
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Postby jtcartboy » Thu Jul 03, 2003 12:14 am

peace is truly impossible because there is one simple flaw.
MANKIND. As long as man has free will there will be greed and thirst for power, the only true way to attain peace is by annhilation of the human race. all this peace, utopia, and everything is unatainable, unless that is our Gov's slip a little brainwashing drug into the world's water supply.
:twisted:
sad yes but I reality yes. I am not a pessismist just a realist men are inherently evil, so as long as there are men evil will exist, get my drift,

so why not at least try to make the world MORE PEACEFUL and safe by eliminating men like Saddamm Hussein. WMD or NOT the man was a selfish, twisted, evil, malicious, daunting, oppressing, etc. . . . . (you get my drift) man.

The United States though are hands are stained with blood at least has the balls to go out and deal with a situation, whether IRAQ was selfish or not, what was good for Humankind was done. The amount of Civilians lost in OPeration Iraqi Freedom is already less than that of which would have died with saddam in power, weird ain't it. I have a few buddies over their right now, and they say there are some people whom are pissed but the majority is fine now that basic city services are back up and Iraqi police are roaming the streets.

This will be a long process but it will get done. And Satan America is an ALL Powerful war machine. Hey buddy the M1A1 had issues the M1A2 is a beast. It serves its job as a main battle tank it can move like 250 miles before a refuel and move nearly 50MPH. Hit targets (not Bunkers other Tanks) in the dark of night from 2miles away. Granted it is big but that is why we have apaches, cobra's, and Javelin rockets for to get where the M1A2 can't fit.

Also with my whole peace concept tell me your thoughts on the lovely nation of North Korea. Should we just let them beef up nukes, what then when they get even more broke than they are now, and the US still won't give them money. See Kim Jung Ill, was used to clinton "Oh here guys take 25billion a year from 1994-2000 (150 Billion roughly) so you guys won't build nukes"

But it looks like they still did and hey they used our money to build these nukes sweet democratic crap coming back to bite us. Also what about the time, Clinton even admitted this he had the Chance to take out osama, but feared it would cause waves with the UN. WOw beautiful isn't it. Sure we helped osama out VS russia, but with very very little technology (OK the stingers were a bad idea) but at least Reagan didn't give china launching and guidance systems for free trade which were in turn sold to north korea.
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Postby BadLilMonkee » Thu Jul 03, 2003 5:43 pm

Satan- I am probably going to burn for saying this but my self-imposed vacation from this forum was rudely interupted when I started reading your posts. I take a little offense to a lot of your posts insulting people and then calling it your "humor". I find it hard to believe that any person that cannot correctly use/type/spellcheck the English language speak on points of National Security with any "real" value, irregardless of your "schooling problems". My position on you is if you have not been there, got the t-shirt, and have little bits of unimportant paper called "orders" then don't come off like you are some kind of expert on the subject of war and the actual effectivenes of instruments of war and policy/means of effecting such...please.....

IF the SS109 round sucks, then stand still and let me shoot you with it and then tell me if it reaalllyyyy sucks.....

If the Apache system sucks, why is it that the US regularly denies over 40 countries per year the ability to buy the "lameduck"???????

M1A1 is a piece of crap??? choose your MBT and we will mark of 25 square miles and get after it. Kinda like Pattons wish, one battle to settle the whole war.... And I will get you at ranges in excess of 3700 meters.....

Other countries such as Canada not contributing.....one of the GREATEST allies in WW2 was Canada and it's ability to provide natural resorces and men to the complete effort.

Japan, go there first and live a while before you start slamming a way of life that has undergone MASSIVE amounts of social changes in the last 50 years......

I think that you are trying to show everyone how intellegent you think you are and have only shown people how ignorant you really are. I know this is a personal attack on you but get with it. I have read most of your post here in the last 30 days and have found most if not all are drivel. Once again, if you have a real knowledge base on something and can speak from a point of expertise, then by all means, contribute, but if you cannot, please keep the snide "humor" to yourself........

By the way HH... happy to see back around......

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Postby satan » Thu Jul 03, 2003 6:30 pm

all of these are facts.
no of it was slanderuos or demeaning.
these are points of veiw.
the ss109 was used because it improved markmanships scores (cananda)
the bullet tumbles in the air,fragments inside the body makeing the wound hard to treat.
it made to wound rather than kill.
they are light so you carry a lot, 300rds or 500rds.
it drawback now out weigh its advanatges.
a .243 100grain shuld be used instead of a.223 62 grain.
the 243 would add 150 meters of range.
and it would be lethel thowout its range.
it would be less efected by wind,sun,rain ,pressure ,altude.

the ss109 was a cold war design.
i dont use it i use 69 or a 75,less wind affect.

i see iam going nowhere with you guys,you have to have open mind.
go on prove me wrong,when you do your homework well i dont need to say it.

these are cold war weapons ,they have no place anymore.
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Postby satan » Thu Jul 03, 2003 6:56 pm

the m1 is not what you think it is.
its far too heavy,its range is poor,it uses the same amout of fuel standing still thanin full throttle.
its an open country heavy tank destoyer.
it is far to expensive,its engine burns out fast,it breaks down all the time.

do you think there going to say that,of chorse not.
try using that thing anywhere.

i see you guys are real quiet about the bradly......no kiding..
fuel tanks in the rear doors,one shot.......boom.

hitler tried that one big tank battle thing.........dident work.
why...fog of war.
what good is a tank that can shoot 2 miles if it cant cross a bridge,or use roads,or go anywhere.
that stuff you see on tv is only half the truth.

went need light moblie forces at a bat level that can be deployed quickey.

the m1 has to be trucked into place.....why?
why do you think it breaks down.

you guys are looking at things out of a book, one big pr campain.
we have new ways to deal with enmey tanks.
we dont need it anymore.

you guys need to have an open mind.
this is a new battlefeild were on.
the cold war gone.
we need to away the cold war toys and get mordern.
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Postby ssamurai26 » Thu Jul 03, 2003 8:20 pm

satan wrote:all of these are facts.
no of it was slanderuos or demeaning.
these are points of veiw.


So which is it? Facts, or points of view?
Don`t tell me, I already know.
You seem to have the habit of passing off your personal (unsupported) views as "facts", and that`s just silly. That`s why people stop debating with you, you are proven wrong, then you just come back with the same argument and no new evidence. Pay attention, you just keep saying the same things over and over. You`ve even proven yourself wrong a few times, and contradicted yourself on numerous occasions.

satan wrote:you guys need to have an open mind.


No, that`s you.

satan wrote:you guys are looking at things out of a book, one big pr campain.


Again, this is you, most of the people here are speaking from personal experiences and first hand knowledge. My friend is an M1 driver, and he has nothing bad to say about it. Have you ever driven one? Have you ever had one break down while you were driving it? Have you ever been in combat with it? No??? Well then you don`t actually know now do you... :roll:

Ditto for at least half the rest of the stuff that you somehow managed to type out. Sorry man, that`s the way it is.
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Postby satan » Thu Jul 03, 2003 10:12 pm

i have to close this down,i starting to turn into a rock fight.
people might get the wrong idea and think i am a liberal.
tomorrow 4 of july.
i think we need to think about the people that cant be here,wont be here to see it.
for all them i wish them the very best.
i think everone here dose.
they give up there freedom so w can have ares.
best of luck guys see you when you get home.
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Postby HH » Fri Jul 04, 2003 9:13 pm

By the way HH... happy to see back around......


Thank you, BadLilMonkee! 8) :wink: Good to see you again. Thanks for your service to our country! Happy 4th of July!!! 8) :wink:
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Postby BadLilMonkee » Sat Jul 05, 2003 2:57 am

HH- I think I would feel really crappy personally accepting thanks for what so many people have done for so long. I am happy just to be with my wife and children and here to help them grow up and learn good christian values for future use.

Satan- The reason it seems that it may become a "rock fight" is because most people see what you are or what you are becoming. Here is some "straight" advice......

If you want to become a great expert on the "Cold War" and its lessons then run out and sign the contract to become a soldier, any arms branch, and then get to learning what you really didn't know. Darn good people gave their lives and some even more for the US Military to learn the Combined Arms Concept. Many more people were broken in their efforts to bring about these changes within the US Military. Before you lash out in a vain attempt to swell your pride, go to the college of hard knocks and learn what it takes to survive on the modern battlefield today.

One more thing. I am not completely trusting of the US Government, but I will give them the benifit of the doubt in most situations. Did Sadam have WMD in 1991??? You Betcha!!!! Did he have them in 2001??? I don't know, but who in the world says he got rid of the stuff properly. Why is it that the Iraqi government cannot show proof that the stuff from 1991 has been properly destroyed????? If they were so by goodness inicent, why has it taken so long for them to suddenly "come clean"??? As far as Iraq becoming another "Vietnam", it may just do that. The thing now is that most of the military leaders have exp in that type of conflict (it was unhgeard of in 1962-1974). Hopefully things will change for the better, but I refuse to whine about it and slander the good people already over there by belittling their efforts.

In closing Satan, I think that if I were in your shoes the best thing you could do is close your mouth more often and open your eyes and ears more........You tend to learn more that way.....that might also help your English navigation skills........ :roll: Will :roll:
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