How Socialism leads to problems

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Postby Roach412 » Thu Dec 03, 2009 8:38 am

one of the benefits of living in wisconsin was the highly state subsidized college tuition. wisconsin residents pay only a small factor of what out-of-state students do...when i started it was $1,250 for 12-18 credits per semester - if memory serves me (rarely) i think out-of-state was closer to $6-8k. wisconsin schools typically are regarded pretty high, there's a few that aren't so much, but generally they're very equal for basic core coursework. obviously some schools have their "niche" specialties etc.

i definitely feel very fourtunate to have had the opportunities i had, especially for the cost to do so.

now with everyone jacking up education prices it's getting out of hand. just did a quick lookup for undergrad costs now:
Tuition and Fees:
In-state: $6,532
Out-of-state: $14,105

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Postby fussnfeathers » Thu Dec 03, 2009 4:27 pm

This school is $199 per credit for in-state, which doesn't sound too awful, until you read that you need 60 credits of required courses before even starting on the associates degree. Granted, that's over time, and if things work out, most of that cost will be covered for me (fingers crossed), but that's still, what, 12 grand just to get started. And of course that includes nothing but classroom time. Books and materials are seperate, as usual, and if I really want to go anywhere with it, I have to transfer to a nationally accredited school...........argh...........I'm too old for this, :?
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Postby thomas_w_bowman » Mon Dec 07, 2009 7:10 am

I went to college on the (old) VA Bill, Got AA General Business BS Accounting then Certification as Programmer.

Full time school also leaves very little time to work, and somehow a place to live is needed - at UCONN (I was a 'resident' ) as a Veteran, there was no tuition, fees were deeply discounted, as was Dorm and Meal Plan - the books were 'regular' price (and it seems that new editions were often needed - so had trouble finding used and selling them back). Some programs offer an 'Intern' program (work for credits, perhaps no pay), which can help when one graduates to find companies all want 3-5 years experience.

Now, with competition from India, etc. (and I want to be clear, if one wishes to immigrate - that would be 'fair' competition, since they are committing to live here too - as opposed to sending money to another country with a less expensive standard of living, then leaving and taking experience with them), my rate has declined over the last decade and I am often replaced with these 'low-rate' green-card contractors. Partly because of this trend, schools have simply stopped teaching COBOL (for example) - because who wants to compete with folks satisfied with $8-12/Hr <billed at perhaps $20-25/Hr> (living 6 to a 3 Br Apt and sharing a Mini-Van).

The sad fact is that many busnesses fail to appreciate anything over 5 years experience - thus I've been replaced over and over by 3 to 5 of these 'low-bid' workers with anywhere from 0-3 years experience.

:mb_rant::

At least Student Loans (and if you get well-seperated financially from Parents - so that you appear to be low enough income) and Grants can be had. Education is a major reason folks enlist in Armed Forces.

Best of luck, perhaps one day you will be able to decide if the tax breaks for hiring 'Green Card' Contractors is better than having staff that might become experienced. PDT_Armataz_01_37
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Postby fussnfeathers » Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:15 pm

That's kinda what I'm looking at. Employers either want a ton of experience (I remember a help wanted ad not all that long ago requiring four years experience in Vista, but that's another topic) or want as cheap a wage as they can pay for some mid-term student willing to work for pennies. Sad part about those jobs is you wind up being coffee-boy and never really gain any job experience. Any more, it's a make-or-break situation. Get the schooling and hope that somebody will give you a chance to show that you DO have the skills. Guess I can't blame them, most employers have been burned by people who can pass the psych exams and show that they know the basics. I figure I'm old enough now that I may actually be taken seriously, but then I'm not looking in traditional computer jobs, either.
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Postby BrevCampagnolo » Sun Jan 03, 2010 9:45 pm

Roach412 wrote:one of the benefits of living in wisconsin was the highly state subsidized college tuition....

"State subsidized" means they took the money -- by force if necessary, from Wisconsin wage earners who had no say in the transaction -- to give it to you.

Have you found the people the state stole your tuition from and repaid them?
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Postby fussnfeathers » Mon Jan 04, 2010 12:07 am

Mmmmhm. And if an 18 year old goes to a subsidized college, he's likely to get a better, higher paying job, may live in the state the rest of his working life, and, guess what.......pay taxes that cover that subsidy. The money comes out of the tax budget for all public schools anyway, including grade schools and high schools, which use a LOT more of that money.
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Postby Roach412 » Mon Jan 04, 2010 8:05 am

BrevCampagnolo wrote:
Roach412 wrote:one of the benefits of living in wisconsin was the highly state subsidized college tuition....

"State subsidized" means they took the money -- by force if necessary, from Wisconsin wage earners who had no say in the transaction -- to give it to you.

Have you found the people the state stole your tuition from and repaid them?


umm...yes, because i still live in the state, was hired by a state-based corporation, pay my state taxes, and spend my money in-state. i think that pretty much qualifies.

of note: every state wager earner has the say in the transaction, they can leave the state and work someplace else if they don't want to pay.

i'd much rather live here where the state schools can (sometimes) produce productive citizenry out of a pretty well-run system. a lot better than most state's, i can say that for a fact.

besides, if you live in the US i hope you plan on being "in" on the transaction of you giving your wages to the federal govt to hand out to everyone else. the UW school's system at least is minimally corrupt - the federal govt is uselessly so.

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Postby fussnfeathers » Mon Jan 04, 2010 10:54 am

In Vermont, if you dislike the public schools, you have private schools. We have two here in my town, one grade school and one high school. I'm not a fan of religious schools (been to several) but I'll admit the quality of education that these two schools put out is far superior to the public schools here.

Nice part.......not only does that save the taxpayers money (religious schools are unable to get government funding) but if you're a resident paying the small tuition to send your kids to these schools, you get to write that money off on your taxes. Your money doesn't go to pay for a public school you're not using. Neat how that works, eh?
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