How Socialism leads to problems

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Postby rascard2007 » Fri Oct 16, 2009 12:32 pm

Karlsweldt wrote:Simply put, socialism is the fact of a government or ruling Junta having ownership of all monies and properties. The residents of the area are given housing, food, clothing, medical or whatever else they need. But they must work for the "state", and provide what is desired of the ruling entity. In return for their labors, they are given stipends or living needs.. but no monies.


Karl U r right once again. Ask it to me!!!!!!!
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Postby rascard2007 » Fri Oct 16, 2009 12:34 pm

BrevCampagnolo wrote:The only governments that don't have some element of socialism are totalitarian.


Excuse me, but the most called socialism are the most totalitarian to. I´m living in there!!!
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Postby fussnfeathers » Fri Oct 16, 2009 2:35 pm

CivilDissent wrote:
If you're an American and you're not in the highest tax bracket, your fiscal shortcomings are being subsidized by those who are. In a nutshell, Bill Gates and Steve Forbes finance a larger percentage of the defense budget -- indeed the entire federal budget -- than you do but they only receive the same level of benefit.


True, for the most part.


Not quite. Everybody pays the same rate of taxes, more or less. For me, that's 28% or so out of every check. However, since I'm in the lower bracket (well below poverty level, actually) I get no tax breaks, no credits, no nothing. I pay what I pay, end of story. I don't own a house, have kids, all the things that give middle class families their breaks. By contrast, Gates is billed a lower percentage, then is able to write off all his charitable contributions, house payments, loans, every penny he spends basically can be written off. So in terms of sheer percentages, Gates is paying far LESS out of his income than I am, maybe 10% of his total income, less if he uses a good accountant to find loopholes. Sure, in terms of dollars, he pays more, but there's a huge difference in the amount of income compared to taxes paid between he and I. I pay close to a third of my income, he pays less than 10% at most. Now who's getting more for less?
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Postby SkyWlf77 » Sat Oct 17, 2009 3:11 pm

I find it interesting that we (referring to anyone from anywhere of any race, etc.) are capable of seeing the bad side of all forms of government. Socialism will end up in failure, tax rates/income isn't fair in capitalism and so on.

The problem is that there isn't a 100% perfect governmental ruling style - and there probably never will be.

With that said, though, Socialism is one of those governments - as shown by the analogies listed here and many other places - that is doomed from the start. Even those people who are inherently goal-driven will become lazy in the face of "holding everyone else on their shoulders while they climb up the mountain".

Personally, I find a LOT of things that I don't like about the United States' current governmental ruling system, however, I am certainly glad that I don't live in a Socialistic Regime...I wouldn't want to see how the recession we are currently in would pale in comparison....

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Postby fussnfeathers » Sat Oct 17, 2009 5:54 pm

Actually, if Canada could pull it together for a change, they have a fairly reliable mix of both capitalism and socialism. State provided healthcare, higher education, things that we in the States pay through the nose for to private institutions. Granted, they have a lot wrong as well, but they're one of the better examples of socialism being used properly.

You're absolutely right, though. In either extreme, neither socialism or capitalism will work for long. Both have few benefits and a whole lot of wrong. What is needed is a common sense mix, where the socialistic view takes care of the necessities, while the capitalistic side allows for personal growth beyond those givens. Kindof the boat I'm in now.......I can no longer work at the jobs I'm skilled at, so I have to go back to school to get an education for a new job. The problem is, I have to have a job to pay $150,000 for a degree in four years (or pay a loan until I retire).........now, ideally, my education to get me into a taxpaying job that will pay back to the government, education should be funded, at least to a point. Certainly not to a specialized masters degree, but the lion's share of the jobs available to me require a bachelors or equivalent experience (how you get the experience when everybody requires the degree is beyond me). That's an aspect of socialism that works. Pay the schools, train your citizens, put them to work, reap the benefits. All the capitalistic viewpoint does is hurt the economy, since few can afford to buy, and the majority struggle to make the rent each month, while perfectly capable people are turned away from jobs because they don't have a piece of paper the employer is gonna ignore anyway.

I'm gonna start my own country. Small, community farms, and a lot of pot. Not that it'll be any better, but nobody will care. :P
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Postby Roach412 » Mon Oct 19, 2009 6:24 am

fussnfeathers wrote:The problem is, I have to have a job to pay $150,000 for a degree in four years (or pay a loan until I retire).........now, ideally, my education to get me into a taxpaying job that will pay back to the government, education should be funded, at least to a point.


where in the hell are you going that's costing you almost 20k per semester for school? :o that's more than i owed in entirety after attending for 5 years(spending 1 semester in europe, and another summer term there as well). i know of doctoral coursework that doesn't even cost that much...

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Postby thomas_w_bowman » Mon Nov 30, 2009 12:56 pm

How the Pilgrims progressed - Socialism Failed then...
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=117019
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=117020

Both links relate to the same subject.
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Postby fussnfeathers » Mon Nov 30, 2009 1:01 pm

Roach412 wrote:
fussnfeathers wrote:The problem is, I have to have a job to pay $150,000 for a degree in four years (or pay a loan until I retire).........now, ideally, my education to get me into a taxpaying job that will pay back to the government, education should be funded, at least to a point.


where in the hell are you going that's costing you almost 20k per semester for school? :o that's more than i owed in entirety after attending for 5 years(spending 1 semester in europe, and another summer term there as well). i know of doctoral coursework that doesn't even cost that much...

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Well, I can certainly find cheaper if I want to move across the country, but around here, the inexpensive colleges are laughed at, and don't even bother wasting your time at a State school.......you're better off with no education at all. It's expensive here in the Northeast.
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Postby CivilDissent » Wed Dec 02, 2009 11:28 am

fussnfeathers wrote:Well, I can certainly find cheaper if I want to move across the country, but around here, the inexpensive colleges are laughed at, and don't even bother wasting your time at a State school.......you're better off with no education at all. It's expensive here in the Northeast.


Don't even start down that path. Most of the "big" colleges in the US are all about name and little more. There are many "smaller", no name colleges/universities that are just as good that do not get the same credit merely because they are not the popular colleges and not based on education skills.

The area where I live is a perfect example.
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Postby fussnfeathers » Wed Dec 02, 2009 5:49 pm

CivilDissent wrote:
fussnfeathers wrote:Well, I can certainly find cheaper if I want to move across the country, but around here, the inexpensive colleges are laughed at, and don't even bother wasting your time at a State school.......you're better off with no education at all. It's expensive here in the Northeast.


Don't even start down that path. Most of the "big" colleges in the US are all about name and little more. There are many "smaller", no name colleges/universities that are just as good that do not get the same credit merely because they are not the popular colleges and not based on education skills.

The area where I live is a perfect example.


Oh, I agree, we have one college north of here that's quite good, and not very well known, but they're the lone example. The majority of the other small schools are pitiful, not worth the money you give them. I did find out through Voc Rehab here today that our local community college is offering a new multimedia-oriented associates program that looks like it might be worthwhile, checking into that this week. Too late to get in this year, but if things go well, could be viable for next fall. Foot in the door, anyway. That's assuming I don't have to travel all over the state to take the courses, and the teachers actually know what they're teaching.........
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