Mumbai

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Mumbai

Postby CivilDissent » Sat Nov 29, 2008 8:35 am

So, is Mumbai Bush's fault? Will Obama say that he would just rather sit down, serve coffee and chat with these folks?

Anyone who has visited my site knows that I travel alot. My wife have been many places around the world and India was going to be our next stop, next spring. Well, I think those plans have changed, a teeny bit, now.

It has been determined, by several media outlets, now, that the terrorist fools were intentionally looking for Americans to slaughter.

US government reactions have not really hit the media yet but I am watching, very intently, for them. I am sure that Bush, Obama and probably some other government officials, will speak out on the issue many times.

Does anyone think that all of these terrorists actions are going to come to a screeching halt the day Obama is inaugurated? What about India? Should they have any role in the responsibility? This is a tricky one for me. I believe that they should be held for some sort of responsibility. It definitely should not be anywhere as much as the terrorists themselves but still, they should have some responsibility in the safety of the people at their hotels, etc.

There is new info. coming out every second, right now.
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Postby CivilDissent » Sat Nov 29, 2008 10:20 am

Fears have always been stipulated that the final war to destroy the world was going to be Russia vs. USA or USA vs. China or some sort of thing, as long as it involved the US. Well people might want to think twice about that.

Associated Press wrote:Pakistan U-turns on sending spy chief to India

Play Video Video: New York native and wife found dead after attacks in Mumbai WHAS TV11 Louisville Play Video Video: Brooklyn Rabbi, Wife Mourned After India Terror CBS 2 New York Play Video Video: India Siege Ends, Death Toll Rises AP ISLAMABAD, Pakistan – Pakistan on Saturday withdrew a pledge to send its spy chief to India to help investigate the Mumbai terror attacks, but insisted it was committed to fighting the Islamic extremist groups suspected in the carnage.

Indian officials have linked the attacks to "elements" in Pakistan, raising the prospect of a crisis between the nuclear-armed rivals that has alarmed the U.S.

However, Washington also kept up the pressure on Pakistan with a suspected missile strike on an al-Qaida and Taliban stronghold near the Afghan border that reportedly killed two people.

Pakistan's Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani insisted on Friday that his country was not involved in the attacks that left more than 190 people dead in India's financial capital.

With Pakistan offering to help identify and apprehend those responsible, Gilani's office said the head of the Inter Services Intelligence agency would go to India at the request of India's prime minister, Manmohan Singh.

However, Pakistani officials said on Saturday that the decision had been changed and that a lower-ranking intelligence official would travel instead.

Pakistani President Asif Ali Zardari blamed the about-face on a "miscommunication" with India. He said Singh had asked only that a "director" of the agency — not the chief — go to India to share intelligence.

However, the revision followed sharp criticism from some Pakistani opposition politicians and a cool response from the army, which controls the agency.

Asked on Indian television if he could deliver on his pledges to stand with India after the attacks, Zardari said his country faced an existential threat from the same groups suspected in Mumbai.

"They may not be the same individuals, but they are definitely the same forces with the same mind set," said Zardari, the widower of slain former Premier Benazir Bhutto. "I am trying to save my own nation, my own country and the future of my children. So therefore, I am as committed as can be."

India has repeatedly accused Pakistan of complicity in terrorist attacks on its soil, many of which it traces to militant groups fighting Indian rule in the divided Himalayan territory of Kashmir.

Pakistan insists its support for agitation in Kashmir, where anti-India sentiment runs high, is only moral and political. But it is widely believed to have supported the militants with training and equipment.

Infiltration into Kashmir from Pakistan has eased in recent years under U.S. pressure, and relations have improved markedly under a peace process begun in 2004.

But ties nose-dived again in July when India accused Pakistan's ISI spy agency of involvement in the bombing of its embassy in the Afghan capital, Kabul.

The United States has being trying to persuade Islamabad to shift its security focus from India, with which it has fought three wars, to Islamic militants along the Afghan border.

President-elect Barack Obama has identified rapprochement between the two countries as a main plank of his plan to stabilize Afghanistan and defeat al-Qaida.

Reflecting U.S. concern, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice has called the foreign minister of India twice, as well as Pakistani President Asif Ali Zardari, since the crisis began.

"There were very worrying tensions in the region," State Department spokesman Gordon Duguid said Friday. "She was calling the president of Pakistan to get his read on how those tensions might be affected."

A clear Pakistani link to the attacks could support Washington's goals if a regional crisis is averted and Pakistani authorities agree to take tougher action against militant groups on their soil.

U.S. forces have increasingly taken matters into their own hands by launching more than 20 suspected missile strikes in Pakistan since August, despite Pakistani protests that the tactic is fueling hard-line Islamist sentiment.

Two Pakistani intelligence officials said Saturday's strike destroyed a house in the North Waziristan region. The officials, speaking on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of their work, said several more people were injured. The identity of the victims was not clear.

"A mouth does not have to be open for words to be said or be spoken."

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Postby Mr T » Sat Nov 29, 2008 1:53 pm

US citizens will always be targetted as would any 'western world ' citizen in these current climates due to all the socio-economic goings on as much as the political picture... Any country in the worls suffers their own internal security issues too... Also remember, in Mumbai, more Indian citizens were slaughtered than westerners....
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Postby Roach412 » Sun Nov 30, 2008 12:25 am

also, remember that indian society is so closely crammed upon itself that a single 30-round clip of indiscriminate firing would probably hit 20+ people, especially within mumbai.

i've been there, i've seen it...and it's pure chaos whenever anything out-of-the-ordinary occurs. this crisis would have been resolved within 12 hours if it were within the confines of a western country (i.e. US, UK, Germany...etc) but, it still to this day continues onward.

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Postby CivilDissent » Mon Dec 01, 2008 7:02 am

More Indians were killed than Americans or any other countries nationals. Very true. And, from what I can tell, and I am still not fully up to date on the whole issue, Americans were not the true focus, although the media seems to want to portray it that way, of the whole thing. From my understanding, and I am not real sure, is that it is really a territorial dispute kind of thing. I could be cleared up on that though.

One thing that really sticks in my head, though, is that the specific area of that region is the most nuclear armed region in the world with Pakistan, India, Russia and China all having borders within a few hundred miles of it. Talking about a nuclear war, that would be the end of the earth, as we know it, if anything serious ever broke out there. :o :(

True, sadly enough, all of us all around the world so often get punished for something our governments do whether we deserve it or not.

And, true, anyone with a decent explosive or gun can rake down many people in a crowd. Sad.

It kind of makes me jumpy as to whether we ever do want to go to India. :-| Is this the norm? How well do the Indian people get along, as a whole?

Anyway, back to the original premise.....will our government Bush/Obama stick its head into this? If so, I wonder how?
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Postby CivilDissent » Mon Dec 01, 2008 7:12 am

Oh, I saw an interview with a couple that had been married in the Taj this morning on Good Morning America ABC.

They spoke about alot of things that happened.....gunfire, security, people, etc., etc. What really impressed me though, was the final statement made by the lady being interviewed. She made a very heartfelt, close to tearful, unangry effort to point out and clear up the issues of Muslim involvement in this event. She really impressed me and got to my heart with the point she made about "those people" were not real Muslims and that there were many Muslims in the crowd that were being shot at themselves.

She made an excellent point.
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Postby evasive » Tue Dec 02, 2008 1:30 am

Finally people are making sense.

For those of you that do not grasp true reality yet, have a look at Zeitgeist, the movie.
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Postby CivilDissent » Wed Dec 03, 2008 12:18 pm

Love, as a whole, has caused more wars and deaths than any religion, etc.

Love of ones self. "Love" of a race, i.e. many civil wars, WWII, etc. Love of ones country/homeland, i.e. the invasion and slaughter of the Americas/Americans, etc.. Love of ones culture. And these are just a few.

If the Zeitgeist movie line is to be followed then human "love" is merely an sexual urge and nothing more. It only makes sense that human "love" is a desire to propogate the species.

Belief, not just religous belief, has spurred millions to do the right thing and save many more lives than are taken away.

There are extremists of every form and those extremists are inclined to go to the extremes.

Love and fear need to be eliminated.....forever. :wink:
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Postby hooch19 » Wed Dec 03, 2008 3:07 pm

Belief, not just religous belief, has spurred millions to do the right thing and save many more lives than are taken away.


I don't buy that for a second. Granted, you probably hear more about negative events than positive, but look at the Holocaust, Crusades, or other genocides all around the world.
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Postby TriAngle » Wed Dec 03, 2008 3:37 pm

Funny that India's Prime Minister wanted to sit down with the President of Iran and other middle eastern leaders and iron out some things. And the international community said "No!".
Next, chaos erupts in Mumbai!
Coincidence? No, not at all. That's what you call a "threat" where I come from.
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