new american flag

Post by **evasive** » Thu May 29, 2008 4:26 am

to celebrate the 4000th victim in Iraq:

CivilDissent · Post by **CivilDissent** » Thu May 29, 2008 5:13 am

To bring things into perspective:

http://www.threeworldwars.com/overview.htm

Note: 495,000 American casualties in WWII
Note: 137,000 American casualties in WWI

Note: Deaths at Pearl Harbor being 2395
Note: Deaths at 9/11 being being 2985

Note: World War II drug us into a war that was not even ours.
Note: On 9/11, ...we...were attacked, no one else, making it an attack on us

And, finally, why are we always making patriotic movies and patting ourselves on the back about WWII? Seems like the flag of 1945 should be running red with FDR's name right in the center of it.

Mr T · Post by **Mr T** » Thu May 29, 2008 7:26 am

My two pence worth....

The Japanese dragged the US into WWII, the US was involved anyway - too big an economy to sit back and lose supplies to hostile empires...(no country is self sufficient)...

9/11 was an attack on US soil which didn't kill just US citizens...

Note - there is a world outside of the USA...

Roach412 · Post by **Roach412** » Thu May 29, 2008 7:47 am

Mr T wrote:My two pence worth....

The Japanese dragged the US into WWII, the US was involved anyway - too big an economy to sit back and lose supplies to hostile empires...(no country is self sufficient)...

9/11 was an attack on US soil which didn't kill just US citizens...

Note - there is a world outside of the USA...

yet, the US had no business reciprocating declaring war on germany (which germany did first) - only japan. it gave the US an excuse to go to europe...of which the US had plenty of business justification to sit and do nothing. we were just throwing (well, sinking actually) money and supplies left-and-right...mostly without public support.

V2 rocket attacks of english cities didn't kill just english citizens...even in the 40's there was more to the world than just great britain..

british soldiers are dying in iraq as well - albeit in not nearly as large of numbers...however, their soldier contingent is/was much smaller throughout. in WWIII the same holds true (in basic form) - the # of deaths between the US and the UK were pretty close in total numbers for civilians and soldiers.

it's like comparing different breeds of apples to each other. sure, they're both apples, but they really can't be compared.

-Roach

GodSquirrel · Post by **GodSquirrel** » Thu May 29, 2008 10:18 am

to say that the US had -NO- involvement in WW2 pre-Pearl Harbor is just ignorance, please refresh on history, not an attack or anything, this is just what our schools have taught. No troops sent is not the same as no involvement. Funding IS involvement, whether or not military is actively dying.

CivilDissent · Post by **CivilDissent** » Thu May 29, 2008 10:21 am

There are other similarities to WWII. There have been complaints that some of our warfare is killing innocent civilians....do they mean like Hiroshima and Nagasaki?

Also, the most curious question of all, for me at least, is whether we had gone to serious war in Afghanistan, which has been declared by many to be the real place that we should have attacked, and lost 4000 soldiers there....would there still be the revolt that is now taking place here?

The same amount of US soldiers would have died...in a place that there would have been no excuse that it had no part. It is still 4000 Americans. Just curious.

to say that the US had -NO- involvement in WW2 pre-Pearl Harbor is just ignorance, please refresh on history. No troops sent is not the same as no involvement.

The same can be said about Iraq. It has been a very long time since a country could not involved, in some sort or form, in a large scale war.

GodSquirrel · Post by **GodSquirrel** » Thu May 29, 2008 10:32 am

Yes, we were involved in both Iraq and Europe before the respective invasions. However there is a difference between giving money to your allies to help a cause (ww2), and giving weapons to someone you later invade for using said weapons (iraq)

Roach412 · Post by **Roach412** » Thu May 29, 2008 11:24 am

GodSquirrel wrote:to say that the US had -NO- involvement in WW2 pre-Pearl Harbor is just ignorance, please refresh on history, not an attack or anything, this is just what our schools have taught. No troops sent is not the same as no involvement. Funding IS involvement, whether or not military is actively dying.

who said the US had no involvement? is there a missing post from someone?

-Roach

GodSquirrel · Post by **GodSquirrel** » Thu May 29, 2008 12:55 pm

Roach412 wrote:
GodSquirrel wrote:to say that the US had -NO- involvement in WW2 pre-Pearl Harbor is just ignorance, please refresh on history, not an attack or anything, this is just what our schools have taught. No troops sent is not the same as no involvement. Funding IS involvement, whether or not military is actively dying.
who said the US had no involvement? is there a missing post from someone?

-Roach

Note: World War II drug us into a war that was not even ours.
Note: On 9/11, ...we...were attacked, no one else, making it an attack on us

makes it sound to me that we got drug in by japan, not that we chose to fund the allies, thus pissing off japan.. we brought WW2 upon ourselves through our actions. I'm not saying we deserved it by any means, I'm saying we made a conscious decision to support one side which put us into the war before our "official" involvement after pearl harbor

If we can look at other countries who "fund terrorism" as enemies, then why would Japan or Germany -NOT- view us as an enemy before we sent over troops? England wouldn't have stood a chance without our funding behind them.

Mr T · Post by **Mr T** » Fri May 30, 2008 2:57 am

V2 rocket attacks of english cities didn't kill just english citizens...even in the 40's there was more to the world than just great britain..

I know that, my grandmothers house/street was demolished by a V1 'buzz' bomb, my mother was lucky my grandmother decided to go out with them that day....(phew)... The UK, (NOT just England) hosted many nationalities in WW2, aprt from the US soldiers, their were ANZACs, Free Polish, Free Dutch, Free French, Canadians etc, I think they were well aware of the predicament they were in at that time...

I served along side US soldiers in Germany and in the 1st Gulf War, same language, different mentality, but great to be around.... I tyhink that flag is rather insulting to ALL the troops KIA/MIA in all wars, we should remember with pride, and most if not all of these young men and women are or were volunteers....

The thing that annoys me is Hollywoods depiction of it all, they make it like the US did it all.... It is only recently that films like 'Letters from Iwo Jima' and 'Flags of our Fathers' is this rescinding....

My final pence worth...