Power supply questions

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Re: Power supply questions

Postby Karlsweldt » Tue Sep 27, 2016 4:00 pm

Wires on power plugs can be bent to gain clearance.. but is not recommended or approved. If extra clearance is needed, then clip the plastic where the wire enters, so it can be bent outward. Best would be rounded clipped space at the bottom, so as not to stress the wire insulation.
There are several types of rectifiers, which convert AC power to DC power. The most common is the half-wave, a full-wave is better, and the bridge rectifier is the best. With the half-wave, only one diode is used. For the full-wave, a transformer with center-tapped common is the source, one diode on the two output leads. A bridge rectifier uses four diodes, two for the negative source, two for the positive source. Where the purest raw DC is wanted, a bridge rectifier is preferred.
https://wiki.analog.com/university/cour ... /chapter-6
Common diodes are made of chemically doped silicon, and allow current to pass in one direction only. A Zener diode is chemically doped to be non-conductive until it reaches its desired voltage limit.
Some special-use diodes still have a Galena crystal as its core, not silicon. These are used where a high-resistance backflow character are important.
One of the earliest (and still in use) type of rectifier is the mercury-arc rectifier. They carry currents in excess of 100 amps, and must be shielded to contain the UV radiation from the arc. And the loud buzzing sound!
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Re: Power supply questions

Postby LakaWaka » Wed Sep 28, 2016 12:44 pm

Karlsweldt wrote:Wires on power plugs can be bent to gain clearance.. but is not recommended or approved. If extra clearance is needed, then clip the plastic where the wire enters, so it can be bent outward. Best would be rounded clipped space at the bottom, so as not to stress the wire insulation.
There are several types of rectifiers, which convert AC power to DC power. The most common is the half-wave, a full-wave is better, and the bridge rectifier is the best. With the half-wave, only one diode is used. For the full-wave, a transformer with center-tapped common is the source, one diode on the two output leads. A bridge rectifier uses four diodes, two for the negative source, two for the positive source. Where the purest raw DC is wanted, a bridge rectifier is preferred.
https://wiki.analog.com/university/cour ... /chapter-6
Common diodes are made of chemically doped silicon, and allow current to pass in one direction only. A Zener diode is chemically doped to be non-conductive until it reaches its desired voltage limit.
Some special-use diodes still have a Galena crystal as its core, not silicon. These are used where a high-resistance backflow character are important.
One of the earliest (and still in use) type of rectifier is the mercury-arc rectifier. They carry currents in excess of 100 amps, and must be shielded to contain the UV radiation from the arc. And the loud buzzing sound!


They oriignally stick more up, but I bent them a little to be out of the way. I didn't crimp or do anything major, and then "Bend back...." Maybe the proper term would be "flex" and not bend, as bend might seem to be a more "worse" thing. I'm not sure I understand fully what you're suggesting. Are you saying cut off pieces of the plastic, and then bend the wires? Wouldn't that be the same issue as bending them outright?
So it seems to be that they use good parts if they have a dual bridge rectifier. Good stuff. You know a lot about this stuff, but some of it is above me. Mercury-arc? Sounds dangerous lol.... Yeah.. UV radiation... jeez....
Thanks.
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Re: Power supply questions

Postby Karlsweldt » Wed Sep 28, 2016 3:36 pm

What I suggested was a "U" shaped notch where the wire enters the ATX power plug, so the wire can exit sideways and have more clearance. An Xacto type knife might do the trick. Where the wire is crimped into the connector is its weakest point. Two or more bends may be the limit of wire strand flexing before one breaks!
There are 90° ATX power adapters for this specific need.
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Re: Power supply questions

Postby LakaWaka » Thu Sep 29, 2016 4:56 pm

Karlsweldt wrote:What I suggested was a "U" shaped notch where the wire enters the ATX power plug, so the wire can exit sideways and have more clearance. An Xacto type knife might do the trick. Where the wire is crimped into the connector is its weakest point. Two or more bends may be the limit of wire strand flexing before one breaks!
There are 90° ATX power adapters for this specific need.

That's what I was thinking. It's basically bent in a similar way, the only thing I could see is that I get a little bit more clearance if I cut out some of the plastic. I was thinking of taking off the entire top part, but maybe I only need to cut little bits?

Also, I was thinking... if I wanted to, would it be possible to use 2, or more, of these HD-Plex power supplies together? From what it looks like, I could use 1 for the Mobo and other important parts, and if I wanted to connect a graphics card, I could use that one? Most of the newer graphics cards recommend 400W+ power supplies. If I have 2-250W PSUs (Peak 400W), I could use one for the graphics card, and one for everything else? The pico itself seems to have to be plugged into the mobo slot, but why would the HD Plex, or even other power supplies for that matter, have to connect up? The PSUs aren't that big, so I could just buy a couple of them and see how it fits, but I would think it would work well. The only thing is, I would need a PCIe Riser, which I found one that's highly rated(but only a few reviews), but most of the others don't have good ratings, and it seems risky... But if I ever want graphics in one of these smaller builds... I would need one of these I would assume.
I'll look into a 90* adapter and see if it would work.ll.. Thanks so much!
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Re: Power supply questions

Postby Karlsweldt » Fri Sep 30, 2016 4:50 am

It is possible to have two PSU sources in one setup. But one must power all the motherboard needs, the other for ancillary use like hard drives and case fans. Likely the graphics card could also be powered from a secondary PSU, but both should be identical and powered on at the same time to avoid cross feeds. If there are circuits that both PSU feed, then regulation may not be as desired.
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Re: Power supply questions

Postby LakaWaka » Sat Oct 01, 2016 3:20 pm

Karlsweldt wrote:It is possible to have two PSU sources in one setup. But one must power all the motherboard needs, the other for ancillary use like hard drives and case fans. Likely the graphics card could also be powered from a secondary PSU, but both should be identical and powered on at the same time to avoid cross feeds. If there are circuits that both PSU feed, then regulation may not be as desired.


Thanks. I was thinking that I would do everything on one PSU, and then a graphics card on the other. I also had the idea of using more than 1 PSU on a graphics card, but that seems to be a bad idea from what you're saying.

What if I used 2 separate PSUs that ONLY fed the graphics card? I.e., 1 PSU for all needs, and 2 PSU's for the graphics card (2x 6 or 8 pin cards). From what you're saying any device that requires 2 power supplies will have issues, and each device should have it's own power source, so a 2x plug graphics card should be powered by 1 PSU?

Thanks.
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Re: Power supply questions

Postby Karlsweldt » Sat Oct 01, 2016 3:53 pm

The problem with common parallel power supplies feeding a device is that each has its own regulator circuit. If one PSU wavers a bit, the other may over compensate and 'clamp down' the voltage. Then a back and forth 'ripple' can form, making matters worse. If two power supplies are to be electrically mated, then a special regulator circuit will control both properly.
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Re: Power supply questions

Postby LakaWaka » Sat Oct 01, 2016 4:07 pm

Karlsweldt wrote:The problem with common parallel power supplies feeding a device is that each has its own regulator circuit. If one PSU wavers a bit, the other may over compensate and 'clamp down' the voltage. Then a back and forth 'ripple' can form, making matters worse. If two power supplies are to be electrically mated, then a special regulator circuit will control both properly.


Thanks for the information. I'll play it safe no doubt :).


One question, hopefully you can answer.


So I'm looking at the 250W PSU from HD Plex now http://www.hd-plex.com/HDPLEX-250W-Hi-F ... Input.html

And I see that there is a converter pack that will allow you to plug a normal power supply plug into it http://www.hd-plex.com/HDPLEX-Internal- ... utput.html
is only 160W. Now what's the point of using this 160W unit for a 250W(400W Peak) PSU? They also recommend a 240W laptop adapter (if I didn't get this 160W unit), so wouldn't that also be an issue if it goes above 240W? I'm assuming the power pack might be able to do some sort of peak (like these PSUs), but what about this 160W unit?
I am debating getting the 160W HD-Plex, or this 250W(250W makes more sense), but trying to see if I could get away with less (and that the 160W would work with the 160W converter). The thing is, it also seems that the 160W PSU works with the 80W converter... So this is all confusing. I also got a KillAWatt meter to test my power pull.
I see a difference in that some use "Wattage" and some use "Volt-Amps." I read that Wattage is the "real power" and "Volt-Amps" is "Apparent Power." Not sure what the difference is supposed to be though...

So essentially I'm curious if it would be do-able to get the 250W PSU with that 160W converter, because these power packs are expensive, and there are mixed reviews on them dying.... Don't want to have a dead computer in a year....
Thanks so much.
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Re: Power supply questions

Postby Karlsweldt » Sat Oct 01, 2016 4:16 pm

Watts or amps are a true power level. Volt-amperes are another form of measurement. Yes, 'volt-amperes' is an apparent power use.
http://www.rapidtables.com/convert/elec ... o-watt.htm
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Re: Power supply questions

Postby LakaWaka » Sat Oct 01, 2016 4:25 pm

Karlsweldt wrote:Watts or amps are a true power level. Volt-amperes are another form of measurement. Yes, 'volt-amperes' is an apparent power use.
http://www.rapidtables.com/convert/elec ... o-watt.htm


Thanks a lot, will check that out... So any idea about that power supply, and converter? I also noticed that you could power a mobo directly from that converter, so I'm a bit confused with what it's actually doing compared to the PSU. Would the PSU possibly store enough from the 160W converter, to hold 250W worth of goods? I would assume you could increase current, or voltage, but if it goes above 160W, then it seems it wont work, so I'm a bit confused... I might just contact the company and see what they say, but figured the resident expert might be able to shed some light on this :).
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