Issues from improper PCI seating?

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Re: Issues from improper PCI seating?

Postby LakaWaka » Tue Sep 27, 2016 12:45 am

Karlsweldt wrote:100% dry salt or sugar is considered non-conductive. Same with most materials. But dust, grime and other materials can become somewhat conductive when damp or in high humidity.
As to a storage system, the average user may have just a NAS (network attached storage) unit, self-powered and serving one to five systems. For a commercial setup, the server itself may be multi-processor, gobs of memory, but only one or two hard drives.. probably 1 TB or less total. But it likely is connected via a RAID setup to a self-powered storage unit, up to 20 or more hard drives! But a UPS used in that scenario would be capable of 12 hours use, less or more, depending on needs.
"Nominal" AC mains voltage is 115 volts, single-phase. But you get two service leads, 180° out of phase with each other, providing 230 volts AC for special needs. A lot of countries have only a 230 volt paired mains AC service.
Does not matter how close or how far from the power generating plant.. voltage is maintained at required levels. The voltage coming out of a power generating plant could be on the order of 11,000 volts for local use, or up to 550,000 volts for long-distance transmission to power sub-stations.
Yes, best for a UPS to be connected directly to a wall socket.
The contacts in any device card slot are intended to make best connection if the card is perfectly upright in the slot. Any angle, even slight, may cause poor contact issues.
MSI is one of many companies that manufacture motherboards and other items, and also does orders for different brands. Not the highest rated, but good. Those "other" brands can be 1,000 or more in one lot.
Reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... ufacturers


That's interesting overall, because that could mean dust itself, in high humid environments, could cause big issues with conductivity and shorts (I would assume), besides the heat issue.
I see what you mean by storage, which seems more for companies, but some users have NAS/other computers hooked up also.
As for the voltage, is that the 120/220 that is mentioned for power, where 120 is I believe American, and 220/230 is what the rest of the world uses? As for "Special needs" I'm assuming those are the bigger plugs that are for Washer/Dryers and other high power devices. Is there other voltage ratings/plugs for bigger devices?
So 550,000 volts at what point gets changed to 120v for the wall? I'm assuming the breaker takes whatever power is needed and that's that (and then trips if it goes above x volts?) You said that the surge protectors would work faster than the breaker on the main line, so would the strip trip before the PSU? Would the PSU even get the chance to act? I would guess that if it's too much surge for the stri pto handle the PSU would do it's job?
It might just be a contact issue, still, but Idk... It just got really really bad at the end, and this new slot is so much better (with a couple of issues, but super rare now).
I went with MSI because they had the PCI slot I needed, plus it looked nice overall, but in reality I could have picked any PCI board (which I don't really think there were anymore besides maybe 1-2 others), and just gone with it. This one seemed to have the best reviews of the 3 or so I saw.
Thanks.
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Re: Issues from improper PCI seating?

Postby Karlsweldt » Tue Sep 27, 2016 5:41 am

As to power plugs for mains connections, there is a different configuration for each voltage range and current.
Standard 15 amp max at 115 volts has two flat prongs parallel to each other. One is larger, as a positive means to ensure a proper ground connection. For 20 amps max at 115 volts, one prong (the 'hot') is horizontal, not vertical as is the return prong.
For 230 volt needs, each current level has a different prong configuration also. The two prongs are flat for 15 amps, one prong vertical.
All these standards are set by the Underwriter's Labs. No way should anyone be able to force the wrong plug into the wrong socket, unless defeating the design.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AC_power_ ... nd_sockets
Only specific power controllers have a sensing circuit for over-voltage or under-voltage. Typically found in a UPS or 'line tamer'. For all other breakers or circuit fuses, current is the only trip point.
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Re: Issues from improper PCI seating?

Postby LakaWaka » Tue Sep 27, 2016 10:58 am

Karlsweldt wrote:As to power plugs for mains connections, there is a different configuration for each voltage range and current.
Standard 15 amp max at 115 volts has two flat prongs parallel to each other. One is larger, as a positive means to ensure a proper ground connection. For 20 amps max at 115 volts, one prong (the 'hot') is horizontal, not vertical as is the return prong.
For 230 volt needs, each current level has a different prong configuration also. The two prongs are flat for 15 amps, one prong vertical.
All these standards are set by the Underwriter's Labs. No way should anyone be able to force the wrong plug into the wrong socket, unless defeating the design.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AC_power_ ... nd_sockets
Only specific power controllers have a sensing circuit for over-voltage or under-voltage. Typically found in a UPS or 'line tamer'. For all other breakers or circuit fuses, current is the only trip point.

Thanks for the info. So even the 2 prong plugs have a ground? Usually the 3rd cylinder prong is the ground for normal ac plugs... right?
So with other cases you get the PSU tripping first, or else if it's current then the surge protector will kick in first?
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Re: Issues from improper PCI seating?

Postby Karlsweldt » Tue Sep 27, 2016 3:40 pm

Most 2-prong 115 volt AC plugs for appliances or tools have one wider prong. This is the ground/neutral or return. Where there is double isolation between the AC mains and the user, the two prongs can be identical. For 230 volt connections, there must be a third or grounding pin. You would not be shocked by the 230 volts unless touching both wires. But the chance of one of the 115 volt leads causing a shock is possible.
Circuit breakers are of two basic classes. The quick-trip, where maybe only 5% overload will kick it out fast, or the time-delay type, where up to 15% (+/-) overload can be tolerated for a few seconds. This type of breaker is used where heavy motor starting currents are found.. a large AC unit, air compressor, blower fans.
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Re: Issues from improper PCI seating?

Postby LakaWaka » Wed Sep 28, 2016 12:51 pm

Karlsweldt wrote:Most 2-prong 115 volt AC plugs for appliances or tools have one wider prong. This is the ground/neutral or return. Where there is double isolation between the AC mains and the user, the two prongs can be identical. For 230 volt connections, there must be a third or grounding pin. You would not be shocked by the 230 volts unless touching both wires. But the chance of one of the 115 volt leads causing a shock is possible.
Circuit breakers are of two basic classes. The quick-trip, where maybe only 5% overload will kick it out fast, or the time-delay type, where up to 15% (+/-) overload can be tolerated for a few seconds. This type of breaker is used where heavy motor starting currents are found.. a large AC unit, air compressor, blower fans.


So.... Any device that uses the 3 prong plugs are actually using 230volts and not 115 volts? IF so.. That's interesting, because most of the time people always talk about 115/120V being the power used, however, there are devices that work on American power (with 3 prongs) that wont work on overseas 230V, so am I missing something in this equation? Interesting stuff. You've taught me so much, thanks a lot!.
So for circuits, the ones in our home would be the first type then, and the second type is used for devices that need to go above current/voltage for a few seconds to start up? I'm pretty sure you mentioned that this happens on some devices when they startup, so that makes sense that there would be different breaker systems for those who need extra power on startup.
It seems as if these little PSUs, and possibly all PSUs will tolerate some over-whatever for x amount of seconds before tripping. Would these power supplies be labeled under the second class of breakers there (do you even consider that a circuit-breaker? I figured that if you're doing some sort of protection that it would fall under this category)?

Thanks a lot.
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Re: Issues from improper PCI seating?

Postby Karlsweldt » Wed Sep 28, 2016 4:00 pm

Each type of power need has a specific plug type. For most hand or bench tools, they can be 115 volt, but must have a grounding feature. So 3 pins on the plug. For any tool or device that needs 230 volts, the prong configuration is different, so no chance on plugging into the wrong socket.. unless you bend the prongs and create a hazard!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AC_power_ ... nd_sockets
Yes, American 230 volt plugs and sockets are different than European or Australian types. One main reason is that many countries still have 50 Hz AC power, and that could quickly damage a device that feeds on only 60 Hz!!
There are "travel" kits with several different plug types and sockets to fit the needs of devices used on other country mains. And some include a voltage converter for 115 volt use on a 230 volt source.
Almost all motors require a much higher current input to begin spinning. This is called an "inrush" current, and can last for several seconds, until the motor is up to speed. That brief "inrush" can be up to 3x more than normal current, with some motors.
Most appliance and electronics breakers have a thin bimetal element of steel and copper or brass, which bends rapidly with the heat of excess current.. and trips off. Some auto-reset when they cool down, others must have a button pressed.
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Re: Issues from improper PCI seating?

Postby evasive » Sat Oct 01, 2016 10:58 am

Don't forget to check your power supply for capcitor plague as well. If your PSU is giving unstable voltages you can run into all sorts of problems including the ones you are experiencing.
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Re: Issues from improper PCI seating?

Postby LakaWaka » Sat Oct 01, 2016 3:17 pm

evasive wrote:Don't forget to check your power supply for capcitor plague as well. If your PSU is giving unstable voltages you can run into all sorts of problems including the ones you are experiencing.


My power supply is (at the time) a new EVGA G2 750W. The only other issues I notice are sometimes the monitor blanking out, and sometimes internet pages turn white, but I don't think the internet issue has to do with the PSU or monitor. The sound card is really the only thing that has an issue. I did get this on sale on Amazon, and I do see a little glue fell onto a panel near the vent, but don't think extra glue would do anything...

I would assume more issues would happen if it was a power supply issue (also way more frequently, no)?

Thanks a lot


Each type of power need has a specific plug type. For most hand or bench tools, they can be 115 volt, but must have a grounding feature. So 3 pins on the plug. For any tool or device that needs 230 volts, the prong configuration is different, so no chance on plugging into the wrong socket.. unless you bend the prongs and create a hazard!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AC_power_ ... nd_sockets
Yes, American 230 volt plugs and sockets are different than European or Australian types. One main reason is that many countries still have 50 Hz AC power, and that could quickly damage a device that feeds on only 60 Hz!!
There are "travel" kits with several different plug types and sockets to fit the needs of devices used on other country mains. And some include a voltage converter for 115 volt use on a 230 volt source.
Almost all motors require a much higher current input to begin spinning. This is called an "inrush" current, and can last for several seconds, until the motor is up to speed. That brief "inrush" can be up to 3x more than normal current, with some motors.
Most appliance and electronics breakers have a thin bimetal element of steel and copper or brass, which bends rapidly with the heat of excess current.. and trips off. Some auto-reset when they cool down, others must have a button pressed.


Ah, thanks a lot, this is very educational. Everyone always says "115/230V issue" but it's really a 50 to 60hz issue. I've seen converters, but it seems that both the 2 and 3 prongs are converted with the same plug, so there must be something special to not only convert 60 to 50, but also 115 to 230 if needed.
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Re: Issues from improper PCI seating?

Postby LakaWaka » Wed Oct 05, 2016 11:42 am

Idk if I'm going to cry or what...

So I took out my Sound card, and all looks great on it.. Honestly the card top looks brand new, and the bottom is just a little dusty... Last night, before going to bed, I accidentally knocked my sound card off of a 3 foot tall or so piece of cardboard... Onto the floor... It looks fine, but I'm super upset that I messed up and could have broken something? The caps all look fine, no bends, but it looked like it landed directl on the caps (which are the tallest thing). How likely is that I screwed something up? All seems okay, but still very upsetting. I just took some pictures that I will upload later, but everything looks fine now, and did before the dropp. The only issue is that I notice some dust buildup near a group of caps, and a couple other caps that I wonder have anything to do with it. I also noticed that my pci input might not be fully clean. Dust is on the back of the card's circuit, but I didn't take a picture of it.

Overall seems fine, but I'll let the expert decide... Still super upset about dropping my baby card... I love this card and don't want to damage it... Never have I dropped a computer device, so it's rough... But it should be okay (I hope...)......
I am also thinking of removing the blue light and replacing it with some LEDs. I would have to open that little container with the LED, but I don't think I would want to remove the LED.. right? IDk if removing it will hurt the rest of the board (do you think the LED would do damage being removed, or is it on it's own separate circuit)?
Thanks a lot for everything, photos will be uploaded shortly.
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Re: Issues from improper PCI seating?

Postby LakaWaka » Wed Oct 05, 2016 12:04 pm

By the way I cannot PM you something, as it says I'm still not authorized to do stuff on this site after 55 posts.... I know you mentioned you would look into this, but has there been any mention as to why my account is locked to a "Basic" user after so many posts/interactions? I got a pm from a user who I cannot pm back, nor can I pm anyone else due to this. I would appreciate if I could get my account verified or whatever so I can send this pm..
Thanks a lot.
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